I love your ideas! One problem is that this game already has a million categories, so I would rather see some of these ideas incorporated into the current categories. The most pertinent I think being Px and seeded. These are features of the game (/px especially so), so why aren't they allowed in the any% category? I only get time to do 2-3 offline runs per week, so I don't get enough volume of games to see some good RNG variance - seeded would allow me to set competitive times.

I would probably stream some runs if I could get the viewership (boring streaming to an empty channel), and Multiplayer runs would allow me to do so, so I would also be interested in seeing this happen.

Any thoughts?

@BLaZeR-flamewing I think the idea of doing runs/having races with the same random seed is awesome :D

And yeah, the game saves automatically periodically, and when certain things happen as well as when you S&E

@Teo- Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree mostly with what you say about the disadvantages of restarting vs. S&E, but there definitely would be advantages in very specific situations. Time is saved with this method for me - I timed it.

You've made a good point about the cheating possibilities with this method, and I think it would be better to not use this method, and just take the minor time loss with using the Save and Exit approach.

Thanks again :)

That's right, blazer. I researched it quite a bit, and there are supposed fixes but none of them worked for me. It definitely has something to do with the maps, because if I enter the game and immediately S&E, it's almost instant, but if I WP to cold plains instead, it will take 5-10 seconds. I also have the game on SSD, btw.

Alt+F4 is almost instant for me, except for sometimes it lags the same as S&E. I have to note though, this would not be useful if farming a WP for shrine+boss group or multiple boss groups, because the game won't be saved, and you will lose the XP and items you picked up.

Just keen to know if this will be allowed in runs.. I can see how it would be on the iffy side.

I've been using S+E's to exp shrine hunt in cold plains/black marsh, but the time it takes to quit the game is huge.. usually about 5 seconds or more. I've started alt+f4ing and reloading, which I can do a lot quicker. Is this allowed in runs?

Alternatively, does anybody know how to speed up S+E's??

Discovered a new exploit to avoid some sequences. If there is an invisible trigger, such as the one in the first sewers to start the cutscene/boss fight, you can send a party member past the trigger while you are using another party member, e.g. In the sewers you can click to the end of the room, sending Joseph there in solo mode, and immediately switch back to Flece, then switch back to Joseph once he is at the end, then un-solo and Flece will cross too - effectively skipping the boss.

This would only save time if you follow the normal route up until the aqueduct, and then use the revive scroll on Joseph. If you just want to get both of them through the sewers alive, it would cost 30-60 seconds. This strategy would also save 1k gold.

There may be some other places where this is useful.

Currently working on removing the big shopping trip before the spoiler fight where you have to sell the Nodachi at Lenele, and then run back to Iona to shop. This could be taken out by doing ikaemos swamp before khosani, and selling the nodachi at the vendor in khosani and then doing your shopping. However you would need extra gold in the beginning to be able to get enough inferno scrolls to do ikaemos (about 5k worth).

This would save a minute or two, but could be very risky.

EDIT: This route is viable, but you would also have to fight a second rider before entering khosani. Not sure if it will save time because of this.

Please post any ideas about improvements to any of the routes throughout the game, or time saves that you have found that may be worth exploring.

Heres the new record:

Could be improved to 2:20 if no mistakes :)

If you find any bugs/glitches/exploits that may be usable for time saves, post them here. Also anything interesting bugs that could be explored.

List of known usable "bugs":

(FDW) Fast Draw Weapon: Enter inventory/character screen while drawing weapon to skip the animation.

(SS) Spell Spam: Same as FDW but do this while casting a consumable spell/potion from inventory to cast many times, e.g. cast inferno and then press 'i' to enter inventory again immediately after the spell starts casting, repeat. There appears to be a limit on the amount of times you can cast a spell until it stops dealing damage - in which case you need to wait for the final animation to finish before spamming again. This can also be done while the game is paused.

(ML) Mob Lure: The maximum number of enemies that can engage a single character in your party is 2. If in solo mode (or only 1 party member alive), you can engage two enemies and have them follow you (just keeping out of attack range but within 'engage' range), and then no other enemies you run past will engage you. Useful in many areas, especially Iona Catacombs.

(DS) Door Summon: If you summon the 'mist elemental' or 'poison elemental' very close to a door, it will appear on the other side. Used in the khosani trials skip, and salamanka boss skip. We think there is more potential for this bug in other parts of the game. Another example is to skip the mini-boss before Murod, by getting through the closed palace doors to fight Murod, however this saves no time.

(QQ) Quick Save / Quick Load: (various uses) Doing a quicksave/quickload combination skips various sequences in the game, such as:

• Forced dialogue (when the character is forced to put away weapon and approach the NPC)
• In game animations (not cutscenes)

Note: saving is not (currently) possible during combat.

(SQS) Sequence Skip: This is a skip for sequence triggers (invisible ones, not yellow lines on the ground). You can send a party member over this trigger and then switch to another. Once that party member is past the trigger, you can switch back to them and have the other party member follow you over. e.g. The boss fight in the sewers (aqueduct) can be skipped by entering solo mode with Joseph, clicking past the boss fight area, and switching to Flece before he reaches the trigger. Once Joseph crosses the area, switch back to him and take off solo mode, then Flece will follow you.

Still need to improve on this, and it's a bit risky but should save 20+ seconds.

Yeah that is a pain in the ass -_-.

I just attempted a run, and got the weirdest bug ever. I was up to saving Joseph from the tower, and i got stuck in the room which has the tomb key... Something invisible was blocking the door. My last save was before the spoiler fight -_-. I was 6 minutes ahead by that point (1:09:00). Gotta make a quicksave there next time in case it happens again. I think it could have been a corpse blocking the doorway, because I had to kill the guards there.

I've got a new route for the first sewers that saves some time, so I'll post that video soon.

Your run was pretty awesome, and it surprises me that you can remember lots of tiny details even though the run is so long :D. I tried to do a run and was well ahead of time, but i screwed up in Liangshan and didn't continue. I'll try again tomorrow. I've figured out some small improvements, and I can answer a few of your problems you mentioned in your run:

1. It's possible to ignore the fight just before Murod, however the door to the palace is not open, so you need to do the summon trick. This would only save a few seconds at best.

2. The bacites (monsters) have a kind of flanking AI, and will get a speed boost when they can flank you. The way to avoid it is if you see them start to get too close from the side, just turn a bit and run in front and they will instantly slow down. You can see me doing that in ikaemos swamp.

3. I would also like to find a 'solo-mode-speed' in town as well, but i don't think its possible. The best solution for move speed is to use Flece as often as possible and figure out the right camera angle to get maximum speed. I've started using Flece more often throughout the game just for the extra speed.

4. The most significant time-save i have come up with recently is a quicksave/quickload to skip certain dialogue. If there are any NPCs that force dialogue (i.e. as you approach them you go out of combat mode and are forced into the dialogue) you can do this. You can do this right at the start before the first boss in Masad, on the bridge. The next place is when you go back to the palace after getting the ring of light, to skip the dialogue with Yago - which saves a decent amount of time. The next decent save is after the caverns of wolong - the first NPC you meet does this. It's also possible to do this with the NPC in Liangshan, but it's even easier just to detour around a few rocks before him and skip the interaction completely.

5. Your Galienne strat definitely works, although it's still really messy. There is a potion that increases physical damage I'm pretty sure, so we could try that as well. That fight is not really a big deal, but it can be a pain in the ass with bad RNG.

6. You complained about your Machival fight, but really it wasn't that bad, I'm pretty sure you must've got lucky in the previous run. A good time for the whole fight is about 4:30, and anything less than 4 minutes is just some crazy luck. I have a pretty solid strat for killing him now, which is pretty consistent at getting 4:30, and is only better when he doesn't fly away for some reason:

a. Don't bother to heal right away just use Jekhar (he does the most damage with inferno) b. Run up to Mach and pause and cast 20x inferno - this is the max that you can do before he decides whether or not to fly away. You should get 200-300 dmg. c. Wait for the inferno graphics to disappear. d. If Mach flies, follow him with Jekhar, if not, repeat b. e. repeat b, and if he flies back, switch to joseph and heal him. repeat b - e You should only need to cast the 20x inferno 3 times. In his second and third forms do the same but 30x inferno. You seem to get more damage through when you pause it and queue up the infernos.

wow thats a great time :D I will have a watch today.

As far as the teleport thing goes, I'm pretty sure it was a developer tool that was left in the game by mistake, and I was planning to make it a separate category if this got popular. For now I just ignore it. Using this trick can save a HUGE amount of time on the run. I'm also going to be making some attempts over the next week to catch up and learn some of the little things that have improved your runs.

I'm a moderator for a game, and there was a run to be verified. I clicked the link and I could see the run info and video, but after I tried to verify it I got an error saying it didn't exist, and now I can no longer see it at all i.e. there are no runs awaiting verification.

Is this a bug or have I done something?

Is there a way to recover it so I can verify?

Thanks

Could you please resubmit your run? I tried to verify and then it gave me an error and said there was no runs to be verified -_-.

The run was very good with lots of little time saves here and there that I'll need to incorporate. But you're right that we won't get a time much better than that until we find something quite significant.

Yeah I think it is best to restart the game in a few places throughout the game, and definitely before Machival. I have been busy this week, but I'll be verifying your run today.

Managed a decent run - although I totally forgot where to go at some parts - it's going on youtube now and should be available in a little while:

The route changes are:

• Watch video for new combat manipulation in Mosad to save some time (stupid push chain attack)
• Don't bother with buying icicle scrolls before first Khosani, because we skip the boss.
• At the ring of fire boss (Salamanka) just go solo mode and send the party members to the exit gate. The boss should die to auto-attacks in the meantime. After the first phase cutscene, do the mist elemental trick to exit (don't forget to grab the ring he drops after first phase).
• Buy 10-20 icicle scrolls, and the rest on inferno.
• Kill everything with inferno.
• New First dagger route in Ikaemos Palace because we can abuse inferno more (see video).
• Same route as usual up to Woolong.
• On your way out of the Caverns, make sure to pick up the bow next to the switch just after the Healing Spring part. You can sell this to another vendor in Woolong for a lot, then go buy stuff. I aimed for ~700 inferno, ~200 meteor, 50+ healing pots. Also make sure you have 50+ icicle for Pyrul. I bought a little extra of everything just to be safe.
• Use a combo of meteor/inferno on Titus/Luminar/Machival to kill faster. This worked a bit better in practice, but i think the time on the video is still pretty alright.
• Meteor is also good to kill off party members if need be.
• Another thing to note is that your running speed through Lenele is slower than mine. I use Flece more often because she seems to run a bit faster, and also keep the camera in 'high' mode. If you compare the videos side-by-side you will be able to see the difference.

Honestly I thought this would save a lot more time, but i screwed up pretty bad in some places. I think there needs to be some major improvements found, otherwise this will just be a long ass run and the best time will just depend on how lucky the combat/AI RNG is.

Yeah she is a pretty horrible boss, but that was the only thing that I found to be effective.You have to get quite lucky for that fight to go quickly.

I have no leads either, although I think there is more to the mist elemental trick as used in the trials - you can also use this trick to beat the salamanka after the first phase, which saves a bit of time - but I haven't found anywhere else for it to be effective. If you could summon in the caverns of woolong, you would be able to skip most of it by using the door which you open from the other side after being healed.

I never noticed this.. I wonder what would be causing that. I'll look into it a bit :)

Are there any other things that you are looking at?