In this case, probably for now we should not have precise rules and just expect players to submit "good enough" videos. As long as a verifier is fine with a submission, it can be accepted. For example in the Waxpro's case, Andet and I were fine with his videos, so such submissions should still be accepted. Unless the flaws are literally breaking the video, if one doesn't feel like it should be accepted, but cannot prove that the player cheated, just let the submission unverified and someone else verify or not. If after some time nobody verified then we can reject. Someone else can always rewatch a validated video and reject it later if he finds out and proves that the player cheated.

Cheating via video editing should basically be impossible without being trivial to spot, except in Story Mode where one could splice runs at loading screens, though they would need to both know how to put back the time the timer was at, and be very careful with audio...

However if the cheater has good programming skills or game internals knowledge, he could mod the game to get unfair advantages. Ghosts can also be edited in any way, though good knowledge of how they work is also needed to be actually able to edit them and make them consistent with the game's mechanics.

This is the summary of what a cheater could do here. Requiring high quality videos will not really help in any case to detect cheaters, especially not in the second situation. Also in general, cheaters should be pretty rare, and probably none would ever bother cheating here; if they used time to grind instead of cheating, they would get decent times Lol...

Now if the runs were rejected for the low quality than the cheating possibility. I think that bad quality is inherently not a reason to reject a submission (unless major problem like missing clips of several seconds). Also, when I see others communities not even requiring videos after Top 5 or 10... Personally, ILs over 5 s worse than 1st or Full Runs over 2 min worse than 1st don't even need a video, just a picture of the finish screen would be enough for me... That could be useful if for some reason a runner's recorder stopped working or so, at least he has a chance to show his time. But that would be another controversial debate Lol.

If another moderator (mainly Alistair Findlay; not sure if Kitoko and Brmbrmcar are still active here) agrees that the Waxpro's runs are valid, we will verify them and his future runs, even if they still stutter. Though of course we will insist such that he fixes this... Otherwise we will have to agree, and if we choose to require minimum quality, make new rules (things like enforce solid 720p30 minimum, good audio, etc.).

Following the Waxpro runs' rejections, maybe we should clarify the rules for the video submissions.

Personally I don't really have an issue with stuttering videos... Yeah, they appear cheap and all but it is very reasonable to assume that this person did not cheat by splicing, using TAS, or so... Broken rules (use Addons,...), proven cheating, technical submission problems (wrong or missing video, ...), or missing clips of several seconds, should be the only reasons to reject. And require quality videos will not even help to bust cheaters anyway...

Now if the consensus wants only high quality videos, we need to make that rule clear. But I would rather reject all ghost replays than just bad videos... I could just make an imperfect Oliver's Math Class TAS 59.742 and submit a non stuttering ghost replay then...

Man, I was not even speaking about 0.8.1 but 0.9.3... And I think that you misunderstood me...

In summary I just said that I don't think that many people will run those older versions when the newer ones will be out... But I never said that people should run recent versions nor encourage them to not run older versions, just why they might get frustrated with 0.9.3... Maybe even something from 0.10.0 would frustrate people as well. At least one person complains about bad controls, different physics... And even myself I complain about the Gate Skip that is useless now, so there is a solid reason to run 0.9.3 instead of 0.10.0. And if SuperTuxKart gets very popular we could met new runners of older versions...

I would even be glad if someone made a STK 0.1 or 0.3 run for example...

Maybe we could maintain a zip containing the WRs and former WRs ghosts in the resource section here?

A few other things that came to my mind:

• Not penalize if we start only a few milliseconds too early... Allow some margin, like -0,1 s and just delay to have the kart start like it would if we pushed the button later... In these cases, I always feel that I really hit at the same time than the "Go!", and getting the penalty time here is a bit annoying...
• Nerf all attack items: I realize that the "pwned" animation is just ridiculously long... It should always do like what it does when you are "partially hit", with a much shorter animation.
• Get rid of the "magnetic physics"... If I approach a wall or a kart, I should never be attracted to it like we were magnets.

29:22.709 just submitted. Finally something concrete for everyone :D . Too bad that I failed the Big Door Bypass once, it would have been a great ~29:15... But then there is still room for error for anyone wanting to beat this. For me, good bye Story Mode 0.9.3!

I do not plan to stop Stk running, only Story Mode 0.9.3: too much luck factors and too many risky skips in this version. ILs are still Ok, but once 0.10.0 is out, I will personally completely forget about 0.9.3. So, what I want now is just a run without huge flaws, I am not trying a "Perfect" Sub 29 anymore.

There are not only these risky ThunderBird Skips and Gate Skip, but also bad bugs like random invisible obstacles/Bad Geometries that ruined many of my runs. I really hate these, but if I understood, they are fixed in 0.10.0. And of course, way too much parachutes/Basket Balls. And Follow The Leader. I am not willing to dedicate so much effort to something that is so much luck dependent anymore, but I will gladly do so in 0.10.0. I already lost too much time in Any% 0.9.3 :D !

I thought for long the same about people interested in older versions, but actually, it might not be the case after all... For famous games like Mario Kart 64, sure that there will still be interest, but I am not anymore positive that anyone would have interest in an old broken version of an obscure game, that is so much luck dependent. But why not, if SuperTuxKart ever becomes a Mario Kart true competitor, attracting many people. In this case, good luck if someone seriously tries 0.9.3. And such person might become frustrated really fast as well. It would be interesting if some Mario Kart Wr holders tried to run Stk :D (and I am interested to know what a Stk record holder can do in Mario Kart)!

Maybe I will do Any% or even 100% 0.9.3 runs again once a while if I find whole weeks to spend, i. e. not before years.

Did one run ~14 s better than my 29:30 after Old Mine

Fails the Gate Skip 5 times Else, there were this time absolutely no important errors nor very bad luck. For once it would had been a run that would satisfy me... Fuuuuu...

Of course, I did some "exercise" Gate Skips after resetting and hop, manage the first time! -_-

Let's forget about that stupid sub 29 -__-... I think that I will do one ~29:15 and then forget completely about that horrible Stk 0.9.3 and retire... Looking forward for 0.10.0, hoping that it will eventually not be as broken... I will do some tries tomorrow before submitting a final 0.9.3 Any%, even if Alayan or someone else manages to beat it later. Everyone will forget about that stupid buggy version after all...

At least I can now consistently do Sub 30.

I might also change and try speedrunning my first Mario Kart game, Mario Kart Double Dash (more casually, though). However, I wonder what problems I might have if I upload copyrighted content... Seems like that Nintendo are stupid in this field. I wonder if replacing the music by the SuperTuxKart one would be enough to not have any issue...

Gold again for me, 29:30.563 :D ! I am improving every week! And STILL with many fails and big unlucky parts (AGAIN in Minigolf!!! This track hates me! That ball again and 4 parachutes in a row! Lost ~10 s here) For this reason, I do not plan to submit it, but if people really want it, I can do this anyway. I feel that I could do ~29:15 soon and still have the Sub 29 aim!

00:01.270 - Choose Kiki/Enter OverWorld 00:41.860 - Oliver's Math Class 01:29.967 - Nessie's Pond 03:23.717 - Shifting Sands

• 03:25.107 Change from Kiki to Tux 05:40.016 - Antediluvian Abysses 07:41.092 - Cocoa Temple 09:23:237 - Hacienda 11:08.163 - Snow Peak 13:01.715 - Candela City
• 13:03.301 Change from Tux to Kiki 14:42.835 - Northern Resort 15:57.183 - Zen Garden 17:47.184 - Grand Paradisio Island 19:07.609 - Stk Enterprise 20:32.619 - Green Valley 21:12.328 - Blackhill Mansion 22:38.087 - Around the Lighthouse 24:08.299 - Minigolf
• 24:11.761 Change from Kiki to Tux One weird thing is that 1 frame after the end of loading, the timer goes back to 760 o_O I wonder how... 25:36.205 - Xr591 27:42.996 - Old Mine 29:30.563 - Fort Magma

Edit: just did 29:38.841 failing 3 times the Big Door Bypass (15-20 s loss) -_- (also 1 failed Hacienda Skip)...

Posts edited to include these times. I will give myself 1 month to do Sub 29, see you in December (I do not plan to submit anything before, or maybe I might do the Grand Paradisio Island and Northern Resort ILs until then to practise the skips there).

I still have the old attempts, tell me if there are some more times you need.

Wow, as you seemed to struggle to get less than my 30:23, I never expected that you would do Sub 30 with such margin...

I need to come back with a final run, even if I were to need 1 month to do it.

Any% 29:54.695

00:01.321 - Choose Kiki/Enter OverWorld 00:40.775 - Oliver's Math Class 01:29.365 - Nessie's Pond 03:24.711 - Shifting Sands

• 03:25.861 Change from Kiki to Tux 05:38.604 - Antediluvian Abysses 07:42.116 - Cocoa Temple 09:26:847 - Hacienda 11:22.067 - Snow Peak 13:10.438 - Candela City
• 13:11.700 Change from Tux to Kiki 14:47.758 - Northern Resort 16:01.233 - Zen Garden 18:04.221 - Grand Paradisio Island (failed 1 ThunderBird Skip -_-) 19:24.515 - Stk Enterprise 20:48.913 - Green Valley 21:28.500 - Blackhill Mansion 22:57.317 - Around the Lighthouse 24:25.843 - Minigolf (messed up here as usual)
• 24:27.251 Change from Kiki to Tux 25:54.854 - Xr591 27:59.844 - Old Mine 29:54.695 - Fort Magma (failed 1 Gate Skip attempt -_-)

I think that you can remove the attempts not using the newest skips in your graph.

Finally, I can join the Stk 0.9.3 Sub 30 Club too :D! There were 1 big and 1 HUGE mistake -_-, else rest was pretty good (with of course some other less important errors... or "errors"). What a shame! I will stop here and try again next week(s). I will do Any% until I get something that really satisfies me. So, Sub 30 but not by much, I doubt that I beat you. If you have a solid margin under Sub 30, I will not premier it (and not even upload anything), please at least tell me if it is the case to make my decision.

In the other hand, I will make my Fail Compilation very soon.

Times for older runs. Tell me if you need something else or if something seems weird/missing, else I will delete these two attempts videos.

Any% 30:18.366

00:01.631 - Choose Kiki/Enter OverWorld 01:58.042 - Shifting Sands 02:39.213 - Oliver's Math Class 03:27.805 - Nessie's Pond

• 03:29.099 Change from Kiki to Tux 05:43.567 - Antediluvian Abysses 07:45.974 - Cocoa Temple 09:31.795 - Hacienda 11:22.988 - Snow Peak 13:23.975 - Candela City
• 13:25.772 Change from Tux to Kiki 15:05.181 - Northern Resort 16:19.222 - Zen Garden 18:02.313 - Green Valley 19:23.867 - Stk Enterprise 20:05.303 - Blackhill Mansion 21:48.266 - Grand Paradisio Island 23:20.374 - Around the Lighthouse 24:45.113 - Minigolf
• 24:46.925 Change from Kiki to Tux 26:15.125 - Xr591 28:26.713 - Old Mine 30:18.366 - Fort Magma

Any% 30:11.352

00:01.576 - Choose Kiki/Enter OverWorld 01:58.079 - Shifting Sands 02:38.282 - Oliver's Math Class 03:28.801 - Nessie's Pond

• 03:30.126 Change from Kiki to Tux 05:44.525 - Antediluvian Abysses 07:48.585 - Cocoa Temple 09:30.717 - Hacienda 11:27.578 - Snow Peak 13:19.212 - Candela City
• 13:20.974 Change from Tux to Kiki 15:00.367 - Northern Resort 16:13.033 - Zen Garden 17:41.858 - Green Valley 19:01.900 - Stk Enterprise 19:44.728 - Blackhill Mansion 21:36.457 - Grand Paradisio Island 23:05.553 - Around the Lighthouse 24:50.510 - Minigolf
• 24:51.964 Change from Kiki to Tux 26:15.696 - Xr591 28:21.478 - Old Mine 30:11.352 - Fort Magma

Did you try to compute other metrics, like the time lost when hit by a Basket Ball, or gained if you get a Zipper?

Ok, I am motivated to make a solid secret time for tomorrow, I hope that I will manage it until then! Else, it will be for later! In this latter case, I will instead make the Fail Compilation :D ! Oops, sorry, just edited to add Zen Garden. I will add times for the 2 others runs later if you really want them. I think that I will not upload the 30:00.064, but include the end in my Fail Compilation.

NoooOOOoooOOOooo!!! 30:00:064... Still containing stupid errors as well. Also Pwned by the Old Mine Wagon once. Was in all cases improvable as the time at Stk Enterprise was not that great (17:43 while I know that I could already do 15 s better here, like in my previous post).

What will I do?... What I wanted to do is to make a great time and Premier it too just after yours (or even the same time, to have suspens: who has the record?) :p. So I am not sure if I will continue to run tomorrow or if I will take a break this week.

Times for Any% 30:00.064 I do not think that the times for the other runs are really interesting,

00:01.225 - Choose Kiki/Enter OverWorld 00:40.379 - Oliver's Math Class 01:31.750 - Nessie's Pond 03:28.091 - Shifting Sands

• 03:29.834 Change from Kiki to Tux 05:49.990 - Antediluvian Abysses 07:54.713 - Cocoa Temple 09:41:401 - Hacienda 11:31.690 - Snow Peak 13:24.413 - Candela City
• 13:25.666 Change from Tux to Kiki 15:03.025 - Northern Resort 16:16.457 - Zen Garden 17:39.292 - Green Valley 19:01.593 - Stk Enterprise 20:47.836 - Grand Paradision Island 21:28.913 - Blackhill Mansion 22:56.693 - Around the Lighthouse 24:32.110 - Minigolf
• 24:33.773 Change from Kiki to Tux 26:01.154 - Xr591 28:12.632 - Old Mine 30:00.064 - Fort Magma

Happy Analysis!

F"@#%&/g leader caked me while I had 17:28 at Stk Entreprise! Leader should not have items -_-, or maybe only Zippers...

I will do more tries and after them I will give you times, though I might have deleted some old runs to free space.

I did an awesome and really lucky start. Never had such good time for the 4th challenge.

Segmentation fault

-__________________-

Man I need to break something... Even if it was around the beginning, losing a possible awesome run this way is... You know Honestly, I think that Stk Enterprise is not where I lose the most often.

Can mashing buttons too fast after the end of a race do a Segmentation fault?! Or, I was removing a dynamite with the Mosquito Swatter at the same time, could this event have glitched something? I think that I found 64 ways to fail for my Fail Compilation...

Alternatively to uploading, I can provide you the raw times. What times do you use to do your analysis?

Bravo ! But personally, I am not here for spectating. At least, was it Sub 30 or not? Btw, I just did 30:18.366, but I am not submitting anything until Sub 30. Good run with as usual huge mistakes/unluck.

Edit: now 30:11.352, damned Minigolf with that ball! I got hit 3 times in a row by this shit! Please remove that track in 0.10.0! When I will get something satisfying, I will do a Fail Compilation!

Sorry, was way too busy last month. But now, you can check my new WR and compare to improve yours even more. I will try Sub 30 the following few weeks.