Not completely caught up on what happened but it looks like there's a discussion about removing past runs due to new patches. I'd agree that any new patch would invalidate any past runs so removing them seems like a reasonable solution.

Archiving them would be a better one if possible since it's nice to have your past runs up somewhere.

If archiving isn't an option, then just stating in the rules that "Upon new a patch, all runs on previous patches will be invalidated" would certainly be a good idea. Would also be good to put that in the rules if archiving is a thing actually but to say "archived under that patch #" instead of invalidated.

Unfortunately, I can see this being discouraging to new runners that their past runs might get removed completely but in terms of objective rulings I'd agree that it is the way to go and better in the long run. It'd be nice if there was some solution to this but I'm drawing a blank right now and I'm a little busy so can't really comment much further. If anything else comes to mind I'll be sure to say something.

Thanks for having this discussion everyone and thank you to the moderators for your hard work addressing the issue.

Sorry just checked these forums! I time my runs basically the same way Elad does in terms of the 4 Character Speed Runs. I think it makes the most sense.

I could also see starting the timer when you select the first character as well but that seems somewhat arbitrary? My reasoning for the "on self-shoot" split is that the player still has control and needs to do some sort of input to get the ending sequence to play. I actually messed up the shooting the gun part a little myself today, so it could be considered part of the "skill" for the run.

The reasoning behind starting the time upon entering the Gungeon on the first character is that it makes resetting the run easier since you can just use the quick restart and restart the timer there instead of having to exit out to the breach every time.

Those are my thoughts on the matter, feel free to critique!

It made sense to me to do 11 Characters as just the 11 Character run you did in Rebirth because of the chronological viewpoint, but I also can see the logic behind doing it without the lost and putting in Lilith instead as the 11th non-secret character.

I don't see a problem with having both categories though and letting people do whichever one they want (or both while they're at it). We can just have an 11 Character Rebirth category and an 11 Character Non-Secret Character category.

That's my two cents on the matter.