Hey guys, like usual, this will be the official leaderboard discussion thread.

With the new src update, it seems impossible to change the name of threads anymore. I would have repurposed one of the threads for this one, but I can't.

So, I've decided to delete one of them while pasting its messages here ("Adding a disk speed variable to help distinguish KBV runs" one specifically, since it doesn't have any user messages other than my own). These are the first two replies.

Thread name.

@Hibnotix (accounts on multiple sites) has made MM-themed aesthetic files to be used for this leaderboard, specifically animated background and trophies. I have put them in so you can see how they look.

Well, you likely cannot see how all the trophies look, because we only have two runners. Third and fourth places are a large gem and a heart container.

A different trophy loadout could be argued, as some of the other Klonoa boards use the smaller dreamstone sprite that's not present here.

We also thought of updating the colors of the board.

Out of 4 color schemes, I went for the last one : https://imgur.com/a/aMPMwIQ

Will leave it as the default board aesthetic if unchallenged I guess.

Hello. Me and the Klonoa speedrunning community might be interested in adding a category extension to one of its games in the close future : (https://www.speedrun.com/klonoaprs)

As the lead moderator of the game, I will be the one adding it. However, I'm having doubts over the intended procedure.

I understand you have to do it from : https://www.speedrun.com/knowledgebase/supporthub/game-adjustment. I assume "Request New Game Or Series" isn't the way to go. Rather, going Request Adjustment To Current Game > Game Type. I select the game in question. I then cross the Category Extension box. Doing so, the "Base game" prompt shows up, on which I write the name of the game again ? I'm just unsure of how this system work, how each of these prompts affect the outcome of your request. And I wouldn't want to make a mistake.

I'm sure it's something simple. But I don't know better than asking here.

This will be the main thread for holding discussions about adding rules, categories... This is a presentation post that might be updated as time goes on with extra information. Actual discussions will occur below.

This is a thread about keeping track of the various times and achievements that are really good, sometimes seemingly better than what we display, but that aren't submitted. It will be updated continuously as new times are found.

Such runs can be found on Youtube, Twitter, Twitch, Niconico... but never move outside of it. I find it important to know these runs exist, so I'm making this thread. Perhaps, this can motivate some of you to try and beat them.

(The player るる has expressed that they did not desire these old times to be submitted.)

Balue's Tower 1:32.67, easy support. 29th of july. Uses clock snipe death warping. This beats Bobbykaze's run. Early game seems good, but late game can be improved. I'm sure there must be faster strats too.

Balue’s Tower 1:57.60, normal standard. 9th of july. Beats buggle’s run with a 2:14.94.

Balue’s Tower 1:57.45, normal standard. 10th of july.

Balue’s Tower 1:49.87, normal standard. 11th of july. I have not watched this run. https://twitter.com/9wa_mK2y/status/1546481817330794497

Balue’s Tower 1:49.58, normal standard. 13th of july. I haven’t watched this either. https://twitter.com/kichoumenta/status/1547192284571062273

Balue's Tower 1:32.67, normal standard. 29th of july. Uses clock snipe death warping. Toughest one to beat yet, I see no execution mistakes.

Balue's Tower 2:28.74, normal standard 100%. 14th of july.

[Beaten since by @Vehmura with a 1:02.00] Chamber o'Fun 1:02.23, normal standard. 9th of july. A strong clean run as well, but I think the third room can have faster optimisation. https://twitter.com/9wa_mK2y/status/1545694382866591744 But, this was beaten with a...

[Beaten since by @Vehmura with a 1:01.46] Chamber o'Fun 1:01.48, normal standard. 24th of july. An absolutely excellent time, probably the best run in this post. Compared to the previous run, it has significantly better third room optimisation. But it also uses a trick where you would jump as early as you can after stepping into a new room to save something like 1/4 of a second. It's hard to see what could be done better about this one. Needless to say, none of the runs we have are close to this level of play, though they still are very decently good runs.

Chamber o'Fun 59,83, normal support. 9th of july. Haven’t watched it. They previously had a 1:00.00 on the dot, but it was a screenshot. https://twitter.com/9wa_mK2y/status/1545676186852147200

Chamber o’Fun 1:03.75, hard standard. 7th of july. Not watched. https://twitter.com/9wa_mK2y/status/1544921685568425984

Chamber o'Horror 1:49.73, normal standard. 1st of august. I think the third room can be improved. And they don't go for a certain clock snipe death warp in room five, room that also can be slightly improved I think. Overall though, no mistakes.

Chamber o'Horror 1:46.76, normal standard. 18th of october. Haven’t watched it, but they went for the clock snipe. https://twitter.com/9wa_mK2y/status/1582176167742033921

Chamber o'Horror 1:43.16, normal standard. 1st of april 2023. Looks perfect and optimised as ever.

Chamber o'Horror 1:55.86, hard standard. 7th of july. Haven’t watched. https://twitter.com/9wa_mK2y/status/1544931520338870272

Leptio the Flower Crown, normal standard. 21th of july. Haven’t watched it. Faster than AxelSanGo's run of the same day. https://twitter.com/9wa_mK2y/status/1550095220704169984

Like with the other games I've tracked, here is the WR history of the popular categories.

If you have doubts about certain of the information presented, or have found issues, please report ! This is a one man work after all.

DtP any% easy standard : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HF4w7JHwjT_KRMtmnK8bOKlTOAszC4b4Xlh5bmpozTY/edit#gid=0

DtP any% easy support : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zbz7fr1TDsrBh1GX0jOri3sowWYX03ToQrAezBxrX14/edit#gid=0

DtP any% normal standard : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bl062WkeaTRhI6BZhc3WCMDzmmRbZht2V6-oKQ5zPv0/edit#gid=0

DtP 100% hard standard : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12FRai8oIryAE1mgsPtUsGj1wJUdKtengPRfEPvDOMA0/edit?usp=sharing

Rongo Lango any% normal standard : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nLyNJAWW5AZdd81QJqypWCgK50JVVgJcvlmDKWNfZcw/edit?usp=sharing

L'sV any% easy standard : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GrTT40ayAyhxeoWowb2LYhZq8fGKgeLuwSw7J92msns/edit?usp=sharing

L'sV any% normal standard : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NPE44hsOt_w8rzvBnVB0rsM0x7H399yO0pTTsmYPMvc/edit?usp=sharing

L'sV any% hard standard : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z6CoLhK7mWPydqA9yrmRtMx4otF5nUkpTsalTwwN42g/edit?usp=sharing

L'sV all visions normal support : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14YNAmbVMDMqagGUlkxQ-T733bG49K8-DiVVUm9Qc1sU/edit?usp=sharing

Hello. I've been tracing the history of some of these categories, and I have always thought about turning these documents online. Which would be both easier to manage, and more accessible for anyone.

If you have doubts about certain of the information presented, please share them here. This is a one man work after all.

any% : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cQladUjfnSex2u4MdXaB7AvwsyGGVw4IU5v60H9-wMo/edit?usp=sharing

Hello. I've been tracing the history of some of these categories, and I have always thought about turning these documents online. Which would be both easier to manage, and more accessible for anyone.

If you have doubts about certain of the information presented, please share them here. This is a one man work after all.

any% : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w-I8UPcFQUyxfViGNjaf50sDJTmjQJjdJhSROAQNZpc/edit?usp=sharing

Hello. I've been tracing the history of some of these categories, and I have always thought about turning these documents online. Which would be both easier to manage, and more accessible for anyone.

If you have doubts about certain of the information presented, please share them here. This is a one man work after all.

any% popkaless : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1auraYmAvt0xKTsYz4u4sEFHE_Lyph4DzK3D8TqGCjvo/edit?usp=sharing

any% : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wCRedWtKEpRzouKzC_JWgdMyT8APfPFeu1V_4js0RAg/edit?usp=sharing

100% popkaless : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eoTpM-UNtxSDCqUJjnWNrbCRrxlekZkslaiIFOKukp4/edit?usp=sharing

Hello. I've been tracing the history of some of these categories, and I have always thought about turning these documents online. Which would be both easier to manage, and more accessible for anyone.

If you have doubts about certain of the information presented, please share them here. This is a one man work after all.

any% : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HSiirDh9UXDHldVYoasS6l7e0KEHDzfB_TnehbhQ6oY/edit?usp=sharing

any% no skips : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18lPP7TFh3W2lmkX0nBrT_8uN8u9sz7aiJBPFcX1fO2Y/edit?usp=sharing

100%NG+ : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12j3yhi3tAfoyccAz7IPCqgCigeGri_UyJSRse9-_RWI/edit?usp=sharing

All visions : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14_X4RUg8DeGWU_ihRnDNvcFAziFa9IbKTQl3xijUBmM/edit?usp=sharing

Balue's Tower : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NPPh-4EDOkAP72nM3TUjBBzkIvvEdTNheqPF2qVznBQ/edit?usp=sharing

This will be the main thread for holding discussions about adding rules, categories... This is a presentation post that might be updated as time goes on with extra information. Actual discussion will occur below.

As of the 30th of july 2022, the leaderboards are open. It took 23 days, or a bit more than three weeks. Thank you for your patience.

Put the game cover without the characters as background, thanks BobbyKaze. jpg file weighting .559 mb

For the logo, go to https://www.speedrun.com/klonoa/thread/ux107

This is about general changes that can be applied to all boards. Individual changes will be discussed within their games. I think ? Or should we always discuss such changes here everytime now ? For now, we'll handle it the former way.

In there you have access to info about the game, a walkthrough, a comment section and other misc : https://taldius.itch.io/klonoa

Wii and WiiU console runs are allowed. Emulator or USB loader runs share their own sub category due to having much faster loading-times than what's possible on console. But this doesn't concern time-attack mode.

Wii Mini would first require testing to see how it is like compared to its neighbors, then we can determine how it would be implemented it in the leaderboard.

This will naturally update as things evolve.

[Edit 24 april 2022 : discussion about the revival of the all visions category is taking place in the second page on this thread]

In the light of the eventual resurrection of a previously removed category, all visions, some discussion has sparked surrounding the topic of stage order. As it is today, we don't seem to have any stance about it, and rules don't speak about it either... despite 100%NG+ category being open and hosting runs for years. There are few runners of that category, and although such a case hasn't happened yet, how would we respond to someone submitting a run with a completely different stage order outside of the final vision ? Such a technicality would also affect the all visions category, and more generally any category that involves the stage select screen.

What's more, if we were to effectively allow a freedom of choice with the stage selection (outside of extra and final), then we would most certainly have to change the beginning timing point of these categories to not be the one we have in 1-1 due to otherwise time discrepancies (for which there already are ideas). While such a discussion wasn't originally meant to take place here, points being raised on Discord and the realization of its significant impact both on the current runs and also the community now fully requires it to.

Being able to play stages out of order would almost always result in you losing some time navigating the stage select screen, compared to an in-line order. On the other hand, it would allow you to clear the harder stages first, without having to wait minutes for them to come up normally. It's more time effective and less annoying, and will thus allow to have better times overall.

So, once and for all, let's try to get to a consensus on the subject. Should we allow stages being played through whichever order people want, or should stage order be enforced to the runner ? Why, and possibly how so ? If we allow for it, should we make two sub-categories, or track runs using such freedom with a variable, similarly to what's done with the extra stage ? The response to this might be really simple and obvious to some of you, but you'd be surprised that opinions have been much more conflicting on the question (referring to Discord conversations). You'll have to discuss it out regardless.

Hope I didn't forget anything.

This is the thread dedicated to DCT's categories. Adding and removing them, their rules... This is merely a simple post presenting the thread. For actual subject matters, read what's below.

This is a thread dedicated to updating and explaining the new reasoning behind the way the platforms (broader term that encompass consoles, computers...) are currently selectable when submitting a run. It concerns the Klonoa GBA boards. Heroes is expected to come at a later date.

Link to the DCT mirror thread : https://www.speedrun.com/klonoadct/thread/1w6ud

Have you ever wondered why you cannot select a DS type console, or some of the less popular GBA consoles for your run ? Why's it so ? Well, that's the wonder I had one day, and I never once suspected it to lead me to this rabbit hole and shatter my world. Seriously. For about a month, I went to a couple servers and asked them questions about this. And this is the conclusion I've been led to. If you want to skip to the changes, search for "So, for our sanity and for simplicity sake". The content skipped is my reasoning behind this forum post and change. Feel free to challenge or complete it.

At front value, it seems to make absolutely no sense at all. Why not just distinguish all official consoles ? Why can't I submit using the console I played the game on ?? Well, before anything else, and to my surprise, not all GBA compatible platforms are available to bed used on src in the first place. Yup, that's right, Game Boy Micro ain't a thing for some reason. You'd have to ask the moderation team to add it in, so I guess it could potentially solve this problem for us. If they don't though... we could then do nothing but ditch the idea. Or create our own hosting website away from src. Which, in all possibilities, is a possibility ?!

But is bothering about the proper distinction of all consoles actually useful for us ? What actual good does it bring us ? The main reason why leaderboards are susceptible to group platforms together is because the grouped platforms (GBA, GBP, DS...) technically basically play the game the same way, with no meaningful differences. In this sense, despite what anyone could say about it, we technically have the right to group them under a term. While we know this would never be possible with the PS Klonoa games, it's a particularly common problem with GBA and below.

So why one could be against such this platform handling approach ?

• Well, one argument is that, as stated before, it would be very user friendly. Submit your console, which you obviously know what it is, and that's it. Whereas, having multiple consoles grouped as one term (GBA) is not at all intuitive. This can easily be circumvented however if we clarify what that term means in the rules. Believe it or not, but the boards of the way bigger games I've visited don't take the time to do that, even though it would only take a 2-3 lines. Apparently it's not perceived to be a big problem to them, like they've rarely got users being confused over it as much as me. Still, I think this doesn't hurt to add. So that our intention is clear on the subject of platform management.

• Another argument, and that originally was my main one at first, it would be meant for transparency purposes. It would for instance allow to know who played on what, make observations and statistics. Fun stuff, basically ! But also, if not more importantly, being able to compare ourselves on equal footing too.

But after studying it a bit more, I'm personally lead to think otherwise. Simply put, there are way too many GBA compatible consoles, and they either play the same, or with negligible time differences that would make it very difficult to justify separating them. Additionally, we are not at a level where these things matter much. Separating them adds more clutter than anything. Src is also made in such a way that you can only filter runs using only one variable. If you wanted to compare runs of many different platforms or variables, you'd need to constantly switch, take screenshots, or open multiple tabs at once. Although it is merely a limit on the system, it only seems to point out that simplification is better suited here. And finally, we don't have much ability in managing these things. This is a very tech heavy subject, that require a lot of testing and knowledge to lead well.

So, for our sanity and for simplicity sake, from now on players will only have a select few platforms to choose from. They will be :

• GBA. Most consoles will land by default. Game Boy Advance, GBA Special Edition, Game Boy Interface, Game Boy Micro... I also include Game Boy Player. It is know to have some input lag, but since it's not the game's fault, it's not really a difference even if meaningful under gameplay. Besides, I reckon input lag could still happen in other circumstances.

• WiiU Virtual Console. It has significant faster loads.

Of course, if we happen to find significant time-saves with a new platform, we might separate them.

There will be a rule line about this in the main rules panel : " Here are the two platforms you can submit on (more info on the stickied thread) :

• GBA. Designate the vast majority of GBA compatible consoles, such as GBA SP GBP, GBI, DS...
• WiiUVC. "

This would only affect one run, Haru's EoD GBP submission. So pulling or reverting the changes won't hurt if necessary.

So at last, this bit in our boards is made clearer.

This is a thread dedicated to updating and explaining the new reasoning behind the way the platforms (broader term that encompass consoles, computers...) are currently selectable when submitting a run. It concerns the Klonoa GBA boards. Heroes will come at a later date.

The core of the post can be found in the EoD thread, so please check it out : https://www.speedrun.com/klonoaeod/thread/6sw8d