There needs to be a rule in place for individual levels that prohibits leaving the chapter and reentering. So you need to play from start to finish without quiting and returning. Since in chapter select there is no such thing as continue, it's not a true chapter complete, it's technically picking a random level in the chapter, even if you have entered the area.
I think I know what you mean, but just to make sure. You're talking about whole chapter runs, and not the individual levels in those chapters? I guess there'd be no incentive to quit+return for an IL, whereas you're talking about skipping via reloading (like starting on the crane after entering the scaffolding area), right? In which case, I tend to agree with you that it should be disallowed. I'll modify the rules to reflect this.
My follow on question would also be, should it be allowed in any% to begin with? You're effectively just soft resetting the game, given that you're not selecting a chapter and just continuing from where you left off, (a reset warp). In pokemon runs, RTA is also used and soft resetting is permitted. Given that, it makes sense to allow it for any%.
That being said, if we are allow quitting in this category, then why are toys banned in this mode? I think the quit+return aligns more with true any%. If we are calling it any%, but using somewhat arbitrary rules in disallowing toys, it's my opinion that the game should just be played without quit+return, and quit+return be reserved for true any%.
For ILs that aren't whole chapters, ie. 1-1, 1-2, we will have to set up individual timing rules for each. I suppose it would generally just be from when the chapter's selected on the menu until the next area is loaded? Load times for these seem even more ridiculous.
If you were doing individual levels that are not whole chapter's you can just time from character control until the next section appears. (there is always text) just make a rule that you must be facing the direction that the text appears before it appears. There wouldn't be any load time at all. Because the game doesn't load in between levels or during levels (rare occurrences) I like the idea of individual sub levels, glitch is opposed to it because it's hard to time exactly. And some sub levels are about 5 seconds long. That being said. If sub levels are added, I will post a time for all of them. I just understand that it's somewhat tedious to time, and there being only 4 full chapters, it's more manageable.
I think every game allows quit and return because it's just a very normal part of speedrunning. What if you get stuck? You have to quit and reload or you can't ever move. I think the words you previously used were "chapter select ruins the fun of the game" and I mostly agree. I suggested that true any% just have a different name. Like any%(toys not permitted) and any%(toys permitted)
Sooooooo.. When are one of you gonna change the names of the any% categories? And add 100%? Lol
Sorry had to find some time. I've edited the rules of the basic categories.
I don't think we ever truly came to a conclusion as to what 100% even was, all measurable collectables?
I don't think wall text is measurable but I believe it should be included. So all. Balloons and all wall text, and maybe the prototype level as well. We will just need to watch the runs closely to see that they were all hit. Which isn't difficult because there is a save icon every time.
I'm of the opinion that seeing as there's no trophy or anything measurable to say you've done the prototype, and there's no storyline benefit, that it shouldn't be included. Whether you want to include Telescopic based on that, I'm not sure. Can you classify that as something collectable? Wall storybook pages are measurable given that you can always check if you have the trophy for it, albeit not conveniently for PS4.
I mean yeah you can check. But the video of hitting them will have to be proof enough. Also if you already have all the trophies checking won't matter.? but yeah the prototype can be excluded, it isn't really relevant. I wouldn't call the telescopes collectables.
That just leaves balloons and pages. I'm cool with that.
I wonder, if you allow toys and then unlock all chapters, should that count as all chapter completion? Seems like some real cheese to me? I would bet that doesn't unlock the individual level trophies and hence shouldn't count towards all collectables?
You need the balloons anyway from each chapter. I'm not sure I follow.
I know that chapter select toy doesn't actually complete them, it only allows you to play them. Because you're still forced to play the cutscene if you use it, and you don't get the toys for completing the game if you use it. I have a save file with every balloon and every wall text that didn't give me the sniper because I used chapter select and didn't actually finish.
Alternatively you could just add -' Complete every chapter start to finish ' to the rules. And still allow all toys. That way if someone missed 1 collectable they could use chapter select without killing their run. And it would still make everyone play the entire game.
Yes you need the balloons from each chapter, but once you've collected all the pages/balloons in a chapter, if you don't force chapter completion then you can just exit without finishing it and start the next one.
I suspected it wouldn't. I am in favour of forcing chapter completion.
I don't think we should need to accommodate for people missing collectables. There aren't that many and anyone who has completed more than one run is unlikely to forget any of them. Having to redo a chapter for a collectable is a dead run regardless :P
The other side of the spectrum though, allowing toys may allow for some fun shenanigans with the hose/rifle (rifle's probably too late to be of use). The thing is, I doubt it will be worth the time it takes to exit the menu and unlock it if you're including load times.
The rifle is terrible always lol. You can't do anything with it.
I think the most simple solution is allow all toys, force chapter every level completion. That makes the chapter select toy completely irrelevant and usable while still making every other toy available and useable.