Hey everyone, just wanted to know what additional categories should be added to the leaderboards. When I first ran this game I had two additionals, '100%' and and 'all trophies' category.
The reason I had them separate was that all trophies required to replay part of the game for the spaceman trophy, and 100% was essentially all the collectable items (pages, balloons) and telescopic trophy. This division seemed a bit arbitrary at the time, and there were no other runners, so neither was added to the leaderboards at the time.
I'd be interested to have some discussion about this, or whether 100% should just be added and mean literally all trophies as it makes more sense as per naming. Alternatively the other category could be all collectables or something similar. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Individual levels should also be added, and timing rules need to be formulated for them. I believe ILs should include both whole chapters, as well as each part of those chapters seperately.
Other categories like 'Minimalist' trophy runs could be added to a misc leaderboard if desired.
I do think 100% is a great idea, but not all trophies because there is no way to prove you got all trophies using ps4. When recording on ps4 it doesn't show the trophy appear and you can't show the dashboard. IL should be split up into whole chapters and individually into sections like 1-1 1-2 etc. I'd like to see an Any% that allows chapter select once unlocked. And maybe adding the rule in the regular any% category that prohibited that for future people joining. So basically 2 categories for any%; any%(no chapter select) and any%
What about a least balls thrown category? Minimalist is great but we could do something similar for all levels, obviously disregarding the Chapter 3 hose. Organised by how many balls thrown first and second by time if the same amount was used. Thoughts?
I had no idea about the PS4 trophy difference! I guess the all collectables route could become effective 100% seeing as the can be visibly tallied in a run.
By chapter select once unlocked, do you mean something like Any% NG+?
I'm recording it tomorrow morning so you can see what I mean more specifically.
I know what you mean now. Yes I remember thinking about this and decided not to bother with it as it doesn't feel like a skip, but rather just not playing part of the game. It could also be a category of its own.
Vin, are we still splitting the platform runs? I merged them but it's been undone. sorry if this was an inconvenience but I thought that was the plan?
I was fiddling for a while and tried to make the split a little more civil looking. I think it'd make sense to merge them if we decide to use RTA minus load times, in which case a unified leaderboard would be appropriate. I think until we go down that route separated ones make sense. That being said, I think we should push for no loads, right?
You and Ryan decide.
I'm mostly in different to it, but it'll be on you 2 as the moderators to retime the runs if that's the road we take. ?
It is tedious. I guess we should probably look into load time consistency? There's a slight possibility that load times could be consistent between runs. I assume it would vary based on console model, how much space you have on it perhaps, etc. That being said, if you don't change your hard drive data, there's a possibility you may only have to time loads once? I guess it should be looked into whether load times are even consistent between identical consoles.
Not deleting your save data just isn't a true any%. What is the overall time difference between consoles?
Yeah maybe I'll look at a few runs and check the load times. It could be completely random.
In my chapter 1 run I had a load time of 2 seconds.
Not yet measured but significant between PS3 and PS4. I've never actually tallied the entire run. We should measure if there's any difference between two different runs of the same player (ie. to check if it's even consistent on the same console). Following that, measuring any differences between two different players on the same console type, ie. between yours and glitch's runs. If there's discrepancy at that level, I think we are sort of forced to measure by removing loads.
A few other things I've thought of. It may be possible that the game is inherently different between consoles. This is probably more out there, but was noted for Flower, one of the of PS3 games that was ported to PS4. In that particular case, you could move faster in the PS4 port than in the original PS3 version. Not saying that's the case, but there's a chance other aspects could have changed between them, like certain glitches either being fixed or non-existent on one platform. These kinds of things warrant separation regardless of load times.
I don't think it's as sloppy looking now that it's not separated by any% PS3/PS4 tabs. Many other leader boards use this exact same system, including sm64. This will do fine until we investigate a little more into load times.
I agree they warrent separation once they are actually proven to exist. And if these differences in versions do exist, then removing loads is useless since they are separate categories anyway. I think the versions are the same. I have played both.
Yeah it looks fine.
But for real removing loads isn't actually going to be feasible. It would add like 50 more loads. -Kings monument boat instead of suicide, quit and load to save 1 second of dying. -every level you enter. Quit and load to avoid the panning camera. -waiting for the pink ball to hit the floor, quit and load.
It would get very silly.
I agree it'd be extremely tedious. Regardless of that, we need to check out of fairness. If Glitch's load times are faster than yours than that's an issue. If you compare two of your own runs' load times and notice variability, that's an even bigger issue. Either of these two situations would have to mean removing loads. An alternate solution would be to change to rules to disallow save+quit, keeping the route as is and simplifying load removal to just between chapters (and mini loads- like those you get mid level on PSVita and sometimes PS3).