Super Mario Bros. Category Extensions Forum  /  Leaderboard Changes 2020-01-13 (Locked)
  roopert83roopert83

Hello everyone, we are making rather significant changes to the CE leaderboard due to the non-sustainability of the current format and to address the number of complaints the SRC Full Mods have received from runners on this leaderboard. I will explain in further detail about "why" below the changes and possible changes we are making.

Change 1: Moving categories to the main leaderboard

We have decided to move a few categories to the main leaderboard as we believe they are a better fit over there than on this leaderboard. Here are the categories:

- Glitchless
- 2nd Quest
- 2nd Quest Warpless
- Co-op
- Co-op Warpless

I will be submitting these to the SRC admins to move those over for us. I'm told it generally happens pretty quickly, within a few days, but since that's outside our control, we can't give a definitive ETA.

Change 2: Dropping milliseconds from times

We will be dropping millseconds from the times for some categories and implementing thresholds for the others where milliseconds will be used. This leaderboard is not intended to be taken as seriously as the main leaderboard, and as such, does not necessarily warrant framecounting a very high percentage of the runs that are submitted. This is probably the biggest change requested from the other mods and some were rather vocal about it. It's rather painful to go into the queue and see 10, 20, 30 or more 1-1 Fire Mario runs and they all are currently framecounted. We have to download and/or use tools for every single one of these and it drastically slows down the verification process.

Change 3: Onboarding new verifiers

We will be reaching out to some folks in the community to onboard as verifiers for (only) this leaderboard. Several have decided to step down (due to lack of interest) and a few were removed due to a very extended period of time of inactivity.

If you are contacted to become a verifier, please take a little time and think about it first. If you aren't interested or you don't think you'll have enough time to set aside, please decline the invitation. Having the sword next to your name is not meant to be just some free status symbol and you're a part of the "cool kids club." You're expected to contribute.

Change 4: Category Requests

At this time, we will be officially not accepting requests for new categories. We will be locking or deleting that thread. New requests will likely not receive a response and are subject to deletion as it will clutter up the forum. We have 42 categories currently, and that should be more than enough to keep everyone entertained.

Possible change: Migrating categories externally

PLEASE NOTE: This is just a possibility. We are not going to do this, if the rest of the changes above resolve the issues to an acceptable level within the community. If we continue to have issues, we may have to proceed with this, and we already voted on the categories to keep and the ones to migrate. It would remove about half of the categories.

In this scenario, I would download all of the data for each category using the API and put it in a Google Spreadsheet or some other format for interested members of the community to take and manage themselves. There would be no data loss and we would wait for the other party to get everything together before removing from this leaderboard. A deadline would be implemented for submissions, so that the data can be migrated and anything submitted after that date would be rejected.

Once again, this is plan only if it comes to necessity, but I wanted to be transparent about it.

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This is all in an effort to strike a balance between the community and the moderators and verifiers. Runners want their runs verified in a reasonably timely manner and mods want the verification process to be more reasonable. I probably sound like a broken record with some of this but I'll say it again.

Please remember that we volunteer our time to the community to manage the leaderboard and verify runs. We aren't paid and we receive nothing in return besides an occasional "thanks." We also have our own obligations and life priorities to take care of as well. Work, school, streaming, etc. Sometimes unexpected or unfortunate things happen in our lives that interfere and that's a possiblity for any mod/verifier, past, present and future.

That being said, mods and verifiers will be subject to removal if they are absent for extended periods of time (several months) or are no longer interested in verifying runs. There's no hard feelings in those situations, but it would free up some spaces to onboard some new folks to help us out.

To start wrapping this up, we're going this route because the previous attempts have not worked. We have gone through 2 or 3 rounds of adding more mods per the request of the community, but yet we're in the same situation once again. So the "just add more mods" has only been effective for a few months each time we've done it, so this is an effort for a more long-term solution (address the underlying issues) in hopes that we aren't right back into this situation in a few months again.

I apologize that this ended up being kind of long, but I felt it was necessary.

Also, yes, we are behind in verifications as many of us were at AGDQ last week, so bear with us on that while we try to get caught up.

iBall1iBall1, mammaru339mammaru339 and 19 others like this. 
  KilleDragonKilleDragon
(edited: )

wow

All nice in except of the 4th rule :c
Okey that there are so stupid spammers of stupid category ideas, but maybe any day appear another idea that can be a good idea
Only maybe…
but okey

"We have 42 categories currently, and that should be more than enough to keep everyone entertained"
Is true that is not logic to add some stupid categories (1000 jumps LUL), but I think that to have 42 categories to run it doesnt mean that there cant be more entretainging categories or that the rest of the categories have to be less interesting;
This game can be so extended, and thats why can be as many ideas, but there have not to be only 40-50 categories in this fantastic game that can be entretainging (and, I continue thinking that the "be entretaining" or boring or fun or things like that is subjective, but nobody think that like me, so nothing)

I like you finaly are looking for new mods, I look people complaining about "wait 5 weeks to a run been verificated", so well

"cool kids club" emmm ok XD

sam1370sam1370 likes this. 
  AR007AR007

@KilleDragonKilleDragon why not just add more categories and add more mods at the same time

KilleDragonKilleDragon likes this. 
  WolfAeterniWolfAeterni

We have enough categories for now and not enough good category ideas

TwisterCuberTwisterCuber and caleb2112caleb2112 like this. 
  caleb2112caleb2112

Not complaining, but I've not been at it long, and bruh. People fail to realize that the mods who handle EVERYTHING on the verification end also have lives to live outside of framecounting 100 Mario runs a day. the obvious boom of any% runs should tell people that even with 100 mods, those who already do most of the work would continue to do so. Good luck, y'all. Hopefully it gets under some kinda control.

Shadow64Shadow64, AR007AR007 and kcajkcaj like this. 
  KilleDragonKilleDragon

@AR007AR007 that was my idea in first time, I ALWAYS SAY THAT, sure there are more people that would like to be mod, so with that there is no problem, no? And with more categories and more mods, we all win!
Inclusive me I would maybe can be mod if wasnt been because of my opinions in the forums (I discover that when Romain [some Mario games moderator] once say in discord that he hate me :c true) and because I not submit any run to this leaderboard yet (submit, not run lol)
I never know why the moderators doesnt like that idea...

Yeah, mods things, I will never understand it 🙂

AR007AR007 likes this. 
  KilleDragonKilleDragon

@WolfAttacKWolfAttacK "not enough good category ideas"
How many is "enough" for you?
Because we dont need 5 good category ideas to create that ideas, for example
Because maybe not 5, but I look some category ideas in this forum that actualy are Good to discusse it, and probably no mod like the idea because only 2 people run it

 
  KilleDragonKilleDragon

@caleb2112caleb2112 AAAAAAAAND thats why I been all this time thinking we neeed MORE MODS for this leaderboard, to not to have to wait 3 weeks to a run been verificated

 
  ScrimsionScrimsion

@KilleDragonKilleDragon did you even read roopert's post? He literally provides solutions to both of these issues.

zsjetu9zsjetu9, Logan_SacreyLogan_Sacrey and 3 others like this. 
  caleb2112caleb2112
(edited: )

@KilleDragonKilleDragon I understand that in theory, more mods=faster verification times, but 1. the mods' knowledge of the game and how to look at runs to ensure validity combined currently probably still exceeds what would be available if they added in 5-10 mods who don't know the ropes as well. More mods=harder to keep consistent communication, more variables/effect on who still does the work, etc and 2. Your place on a leaderboard shouldn't affect the goal you set for yourself. For example, if you got a 5:04 a week ago, you got it a week ago. Whether it is immediately verified and slapped on the leaderboard or not shouldn't have anything to do with your excitement to have reached a new goal and personal best. I think a lot of people get into this game with the idea of a wr, then quickly realize the meticulous work required. Therefore, there's a huge surge in category extensions, new requests, high volume of submissions in these categories, etc. Not aimed at anyone in particular, but unless you understand not only the game but the tools required for video verification/frame counting for all types of recordings/qualities, then let the mods do the work they do (and for free, as mentioned before).

TecateTecate, kcajkcaj and 5 others like this. 
  AksisSRAksisSR

I was about to put myself into this but I guess @caleb2112caleb2112 read my mind lol Kappa

KilleDragonKilleDragon and caleb2112caleb2112 like this. 
  caleb2112caleb2112

It isn't meant to sound tilted or anything, just seems like this leaderboard has turned into a classroom with too many students and not enough people willing to listen and learn from the teachers. Just a lot of strange questions/diversions when the resources are widely available for almost any question asked now.

and "wens 454"

TecateTecate, kcajkcaj and KilleDragonKilleDragon like this. 
  AksisSRAksisSR

I don't blame you brah
454 is until someone fast accels in every level Kappa

KilleDragonKilleDragon likes this. 
  KilleDragonKilleDragon
(edited: )

@caleb2112caleb2112 okey, yeah, youre rigth, that sound logic 🙂

 
  SaradocSaradoc
(edited: )

I don't think Second Quest and Coop belong on the main board. Second Quest is almost the same, even Both Quests would be more variety. And Coop is mostly available for people who go to GDQs for 2 weeks a year and has 8 runs with repeating players, I can almost pinpoint who made that decision...

Also I don't know why there are FIVE All 1-Up Mushrooms and THREE All Coin Heavens categories. If something needs to be removed, start by reducing them down to 1 each first.

EDIT: I think some extraordinary categories like Walkathon Warpless should always be eligible to become a category if someone manages a completion.

EDIT2: I also think a DOUBLING of the categories is really relevant news to the main board, not every runner follows this board.

barnowlbarnowl, KilleDragonKilleDragon and 3 others like this. 
  darGdarG

Honestly only categories that should be added to the main board are Glitchless and MAYBE Both Quests and ★8-4. I agree with @SaradocSaradoc, that Co-op isn't really an option for many people. I see Second Quest somewhere in between - it's still kind of competitive, but if someone already got 457/456 then Top 3 is basically free, with a small changes to current route. Everything else seems like a step in a right direction.

KilleDragonKilleDragon and Logan_SacreyLogan_Sacrey like this. 
  AksisSRAksisSR

I also agree with @SaradocSaradoc, but we'll see if the mods will hear us out

KilleDragonKilleDragon likes this. 
  roopert83roopert83

Okay, let's take a step back on the migrating of categories and have an open discussion about that.

For me personally, I think Glitchless should be moved to the main LB. 2nd Quest, I'm on the fence. Co-op, I think should remain here.

Regarding the news for main leaderboard, I'll make a post when we get this sorted out and I think we may implement a few minor changes there as well.

AksisSRAksisSR, Logan_SacreyLogan_Sacrey and 5 others like this. 
  KilleDragonKilleDragon

I dont think is bad idea to move Second Quest;
But yeah, probably co-op nope

The best would be to move Glithless, Second Quest and Both Quest