Normal run rules say what "Anything that you cannot do with an original and unmodified NES, brick controller and SMB1 cartridge is prohibited. Including but not limited to: Turbo L + R Savestates Altering the game speed (FPS) Using a bad ROM (missing title screen, different graphics, etc.)"
But, for those who have non-standart hardware i imagined a 3 new categories:
- "Non-standart controller": you can use any controller, including those what have turbo, L + R and other special properties. Console and cartridge must be normal.
- "Non-standart console": the same thing as above, but on top of that you can also use modified or non-standart console. Time counts in frames (in-game time), not in real-life seconds (that would prevent abuse of FPS altering). Cartridge must be normal.
This is pretty much the logical extreme of "non-standard" hardware category, as adding "any ROM hack" or "any combination of cheats" would be utterly ridiculous. However, "Non-standart controller" and "Non-standart console", after some changes and overhauls, can make pretty good category.
What do you think?
thats something i was thinking of. if wii vc players have slower runs because of their fps why cant i have a higher fps in an emu and get a faster time.
I mean, in this variant of rules ("Non-standart console") the time is measured in in-game time, not real time, and with slower time you have more time to react. So theoretically the best option in that category is 1 frame per second.
no. i was not talking about main category. All this time i was talking about this new categories i just made up and want to make ("Non-standart controller" and "Non-standart console"). I don't want to change main rules. At least for now. If you want to write about changing main rules, make it elsewhere. And by "elsewhere" i mean forum of main categories of the game.
I was meaning what if we make category where use of special modified consoles and controllers are allowed, then players will set FPS to nonsensically high value and complete game in seconds. To make this more fair and logical, time would count in frames, not real life seconds.
This new categories would also somewhat decrease the difference between TAS and regular speedrun: normal TAS not made with RTA rules can press L + R simultaneously and on any speed. Human with modified controller also can do that.
And if we make special category where everyone use modified controllers ("Non-standart controller" category) and category where everyone use modified controllers + modified consoles ("Non-standart console"), everything is fair, as they are not harming those with normal controllers and consoles (they sit in main category), and using same rules so they won't have unfair advantages on over another.
@LiamTrader and @LiamTrader You should read what i was explaining. I was not talking about main rules. I was talking about making new run categories - "Non-standart controller" and "Non-standart console" categories - and making rules in them. These would be special categories where usage of modified hardware is allowed. And in these rules it would be allowed to change FPS or do anything else what can't be done with normal hardware. But to stop players from setting FPS to arbitrarily high value and completing game in a second, record time would count in in-game frames.
@Player209 I know what you where explaining and i think it is a great idea. I was just adding to what you said and applying it to the main categories. I do think your idea is really good.
I would first look for a category that allows both of the characteristics describe (console and controller aditions), it would make the most unique category
Im also not sure about the "counting by frames" system, but either with IGT or RTA, it would make more sense to basicaly allow legal console releases that would be possible to ahve without having to do a manipulation of emulator; i know there is a console for NES games with up to 75 fps, which would make for an extra speed category, and the slowest refresh i know is something under a little 50 (take PAL for about 50) If you count it by frames and allow any framerate, you can just play at 0.1 fps and easliy reproduce by yourself the exact inputs of a TAS without any effort (besides it being extremely tedious for most of the people lol)
I'm sorry but I don't think is a good idea.
If we allow non-standard controllers and non-standard hardware then that makes emulation the most dominant platform for the category as with L+R enabled it has an absolute advantage over OEM controllers. Not to mention it has no real advantage outside of one level (also applies to turbo).
Also, players can slow down the game to the frame so timing by frames is not a good metric at all.
@SeraphmIII emulators would be allowed in "Non-standard consoles" category. You have the point. And if you think what timing by frames is bad, then what to do with increasing game speed to complete it faster? Either it will be allowed (and in this case players must learn on where to increase it and where to decrease), or changing FPS will be disallowed at all. I think what making these 2 categories - "Non-standart controller" and "Non-standart console" - are a good idea, because not everyone have "real" hardware, and many are more experienced with non-original hardware. And this category will have pretty big amount of runs to make competition.
well if you allow it as fast as possible, it is actualy hard to beat the game well at an extremely fast speed, you can't just play the game at x60 because no one is capable of playing it so fast favorecing it to be as slow as possible, it is a category where you can insert 1 frame every 5 seconds, something anyone can do
the best would probably be just marking a limit in both cases with some logical sense but, fairly enough, there is alredy a PAL subcategory for the mane categories of the game, so there is not a lot more to do there
also, is true that l+r isnt realy that important on the general side; very most of the runners wouldn't use it at all even if it was allowed alredy in the main category, it would realy only save some few frames if used well in 8-4 and at a top level; and turbo is basicaly a way of making the clips a lot easier
No. If you want something like PAL on NTSC, where the game runs faster but is still at a consistent framerate with the same controller and input restrictions in place, we can consider that. But making a category where "anything goes" for controller and console used is a horrible idea that will only lead to imbalance and domination by certain console/controller schemes.
Hey Folks!
Just wanted to announce a new change to timing methods for both 11x categories. The new timing standards are as follows:
- Timing starts from power-on/reset (or game select if you're using one of the combo cartridges).
- Timing ends on grabbing the axe on the 11th run.
- Time betw
