Forums  /  Meat Boy series  /  Super Meat Boy  /  Naija clips in 106%
  warm_hamwarm_ham

help me understand: do naija clips always require fps drops, or do they only require well-placed/timed superdashes? i'm imagining a scenario in which we ban naija clips produced by fps drops and allow those that can be performed using superdashes at 60

AvetixzAvetixz likes this. 
  UberUber

How i see it, the goal of 106% is to complete every level as fast as you can and not to just have the game register that you beat (hence the ban of slugger skip and kid skip). Naija clips are different from these in that you are still using level and character mechanics (no matter how silly they might be) to complete a level as fast as possible. Clips with naija is just apart of Naija in an rta setting.

warm_hamwarm_ham likes this. 
  MatteMatte

As I see it there are 2 types of clips doable with naija. First there is the half block clip like in 5-1x, 3-1x, 3-10x, etc. These are all very consistent and can realistically be expected to be got every time. These usually require a super dash.

Then there is the solid block clip, possible spots for these are quite abundant notable levels for ss include 3-13x, 3-18x and 5-9x. I believe these require pixel perfect positioning and are generally hard to get consistently. They are definitely possible with a stable 60 fps but variable framerates/ frame drops might make them easier. I don't think super dashes help these in any way since these clips are always done horizontally.

 
  warm_hamwarm_ham

If you can do all of these things at 60FPS, they should be OK in a run. I don't get the debate here

 
  MijzicalMijzical

Hey in all honesty you can clip even in IL too although that's because people don't realise that that is a clip !

But the debate is about whether to use essentially a bug in the game. Now some bugs aren't run like WWing and unlocking fetus and naija in forest and using alt but clips are allowed to be used.

Saying that clips are apart of naija is as true as saying alt is apart of meat boy or that WW is also apart of meat boy and should be ran in 106%. I mean you can do boths these things 100% consistently so what's wrong with them?

 
  warm_hamwarm_ham

But clips are a byproduct of intended gameplay. WW and Alt are not.

 
  MijzicalMijzical

why wouldn't ww be a byproduct if clips are?

 
  warm_hamwarm_ham

Because ww requires replaying a wz, which wasnt intended by the devs

 
  MijzicalMijzical

Well they didn't intend for you to actually be able to go into the blocks either

 
  warm_hamwarm_ham

But they did intend for you to move through the levels with a character and complete them sequentially. That still happens when youre clipping with Naija.

 
  StarlitSentryStarlitSentry

Saying "devs never intended" is a really bad argument, devs never intended to put in superdash, autojump, infinite float, oob, josef super jump, slides, timer glitch etc

Taking these out doesn't add to the run, in fact banning superdash as a whole would kill naija since the risk of an accidental super is too high especially if you try for speed.

As for the "accidental" clips that we cant tell are happening thing, there's several clips that can happen by accident but exceptionally few happen with a high rate of success and are on a route that would reasonably be taken.

MijzicalMijzical likes this. 
  HambHamb

I just realised that there was this big debate, so i guess i should give my input on this.

As far as I know, there are at the moment 4 kinds of clips
- A : clips that are 100% consistent with the proper setup and easy to do (example 5-1x)
- B : clips that are 100% consistent with the proper setup and hard to do (example 5-16x)
- C : clips that are not 100% consistent but don't require a frame drop (i'm not clear if this exists : 4-12?)
- D : clips that require the game to run under abnormal conditions

The line between categories B and C can be very thin since something being consistent but frame perfect is basically the same as being random in SS conditions.

At the moment :
- I don't know of any clip in category A that completely destroys a level. The closest to complete destruction would be 3-1x, but it's kind of inbetween A and B (since death and big time loss are actual risks).
- There are several clips in category B, and all of them make the level significantly harder than if you didn't try anything in a first place. (Enough so that i would consider not doing them even if allowed to.) Best example of this would be 5-16x or 3-10x.
- The risk/reward ratio of all clips in category C make them completely impractical in SS, and using them just results in ridiculous time losses. If someone gets rewarded for doing these, then their stubbornness should only provoke admiration

My thoughts about the effect of those facts on the game:
Clips of type A just make the game more spectacular, just like autojump/brownie skip do, by saving small amounts of time with a damage to the game much lower than brownie skip imo, and a change of difficulty negligible. Therefore they make the runs more interesting, not less.
As for clips of type B, they are more damaging, but they are also more challenging : destroying the level requires mastery and involves risks, just like regular skips do. As a player, i enjoy this challenge, and it leads to risk/reward considerations that are the essence of speedrunning this game.
Since modifying ones setup in order to ruin the game or trying to go slow are both stupid for 106, i think clips of type C and D are just irrelevant.

My conclusion : clips are good, i think they should be allowed.

grassgrass and GalaxiGalaxi like this.