Captain, at least share an opinion as to why you wouldn't want multilogging or better yet provide a valid reason. There is no point in bringing up instanced servers because it has nothing to do with multilogging and you can't assume how they will function without a statement from Jagex. Why discuss something that may, and in my opinion most likely, will never happen?
That being said everything I have brought up with mulitlogging IS within game rules and speeds up the time. Multilogging has also excluded from the rules for the speedrun, so why are we bringing it up now? I've been using multiple accounts for RS speedrunning since I started doing it, it's not like it was a secret, but why is it now an issue? To me it sounds like some of you just don't want to be bothered using multilog strats, moreso than it being against the spirit of the game mode. Its Jagex's job to define the lines of what we can do within the game, not ours. If they leave in little things that can aid getting an ironman account to the Champion's Guild quicker, then why dismiss it?
Also there shouldn't be any limitations with multilogging unless it voids game rules. Anything goes.
GDQ run exists if and only if we get an instanced server which I think makes it a worthwhile consideration especially in the lens where the speedrun is a finished product put together by a community
While the 'spirit of ironman' argument is not formally defined, the use of multilogging nevertheless blurs the lines between what's an ironman and what's a regular account. While Jagex has built in rules to dictate certain things for ironmen, there are arguments to be made like "well if you're picking up bones from the ground, why don't you just trade yourself the bones or loot them from someone else's chickens?" and then the slope becomes particularly slippery, because if you're willing to use assistance to acquire some items, you have to wonder why you don't just allow it for all of them and not even bother running on Ironman anymore.
The whole run is an ironman run using the limitations of ironman. Everything you just said isn't relevant to that.
If we are tossing out the "spirit of the run" in favor of going fast, we should just run as normal accounts, rather than iron accounts. That is by far the faster account type, and in the interest of going as fast as possible would be the logical choice. In my opinion that is the same argument as the multilogging argument. If we are just deciding based on the fastest possible method, we shouldn't be running as iron accounts, we should be multi-logging and setting up beforehand and we should be picking up other player's items as convenient.
That being said, we do run as iron accounts, and the ENTIRE idea behind iron accounts is to do things without help from others.
Besides that, this isn't an any % run, and plenty of games have different categories for glitchless runs, glitched runs, and runs allowing glitches but banning specific ones, either because it isn't fun, or because it's against the spirit of the run, or because a significant portion of the community simply said no. This feels more like one of those cases, where if it were allowed it should be a different category even though it isn't a glitch, it is the same argument of "the fastest possible way".
Then put it in a different category I guess. But to say we should run normal accounts because it's faster isn't the point of the run at hand which is an ironman account run. There are limitations put in place to not require wealth before a run, which is what makes this category more enjoyable. By multilogging this limitation isn't voided you just have to spend some time collecting certificates, which is really easy to do. By only spending 20 minutes (5 minutes if the accounts are already positioned to farm certs) you can have your next 10 hours of runs be faster. And no, this category isn't any%, but the point of it is the same. To get to the end as fast as possible by any means necessary.
The only instances of multilogging in my route are to transfer over certificates then I logout and log into another account which will just be standing in a spot to block count draynor. Why would this be so difficult to implement in runs? If other players are able to affect the outcome of your run why can't you use another account to control the same variables and use it to your advantage? It doesn't make sense that other people can affect your run with their accounts, but you can't affect it with your own.
You can't tell me people wouldn't run a normal account over an ironman if items were already provided, that's why they run ironman. If this were the case ironman cguild% would not be the main category.
I agree with pretty much everything EZScape is saying.
Captain, to answer your question, it can be. Not sure why you think it can't and also not sure why you even brought it up in this discussion.
Categories are split for N64, VC and emulator. Again, I am extremely confused as to why you are mentioning this here.
I think at this point, personally, it just all comes down to what's fun to speedrun, because that's why we do this right?
In my opinion, setting up other accounts and using them alongside the run isn't fun.
But there'll be the argument that we already spend time setting up for authenticator, why not spend time on multilog? Setting up authenticator is a one time event, happens prior to the run, and doesn't affect anything else for the rest of the run. Multilog strats require use throughout the run on multiple occasions.
There's also the argument that we're suppose to be speedrunners and do the fastest possible execution according to the category. Sure, that should be the case, but we shouldn't be forced to multilog in order to achieve the hypothetical "faster" time. I realize that this is of personal opinion, but multilogging brings a change deserving of it's own category.
But then, there'll be the argument of "just don't multilog then and have a slower time." Okay, try telling that to someone competitively engaging in a speedrun they once thought of as fun. They'll be forced to multilog in order to compete for faster times. I realize that this comes off as whiny and entitled, but by introducing multilog, you're changing the scope and policy of the speedrun in a way that doesn't appeal to others and myself.
And finally, there also be the argument of, "well, multilog doesn't bring that much of a discrepancy that would qualify for a sub-category." To that I would argue that it would. It affects the playstyle of the runner and hypothetically drastically reduces time (going from what I've been hearing), thus it would force competitive runners to abandon non-multilog routes in order for the fastest. (assuming if they were in a category together)
Going thrown in a quote from LadyRedPool on category separation as well: "Besides that, this isn't an any % run, and plenty of games have different categories for glitchless runs, glitched runs, and runs allowing glitches but banning specific ones, either because it isn't fun, or because it's against the spirit of the run, or because a significant portion of the community simply said no. This feels more like one of those cases, where if it were allowed it should be a different category even though it isn't a glitch, it is the same argument of "the fastest possible way"."
You can bring up other games and their speedrunning communities and how they approached things, but the thing is, this is our community. Not Breath of the Wild's, Not Portal, Not Mario Kart, This is OSRS's community and our decision as a whole.
Also, just to bring up a side note:
Let's assume each one of these were a category on their own; F2P Ironman Champions' Guild no multilog, F2P Ironman Champions' Guild any% (multilog included), F2P Champions' Guild any%.
Which would be ran the most?
I think you overestimate the difficulty/use of an alt for the route.
Stuff like this where you can just trade it over (or use it on an ironman) This is less effort than what people currently do you just so happen to have another client open.
It doesn't warrant a separate category it's a pretty basic strat. It's trying to make a separate category just 'cause of not liking logging into an alt but also wanting to keep WR potential. That's absurd.
I'm bringing up Sm64 because I'm really just trying to derail discussion here
The next game I was going to bring up was Pokemon Red and the Instant Text trick. It was part of Glitchless% for a while and then it was prohibited and then there was basically a new Any% Glitchless that allowed it and then they just banned it outright. And really you could discuss the merits of both sides for days, which all the top runners did in fact do. And one of the ultimate conclusions: it just wasn't fun. You would just lose lots of runs to performing this strictly fast trick and people mostly hated doing it. Doesn't matter if it was a glitch or not. Is Marowak skip a glitch? Who cares - they decided it based on preference of the runners.
tl;dr I'd rather see multilog be a new category than become "the" run
Multilog route saves a few minutes at most (at the most 3 from my current understanding) but could be as little as 1. Multilog strats are used twice, or three if you do ashes within the run. It is literally trading over quest items to complete a quest which is part of ironman mode and was implemented ON PURPOSE. It is within the spirit of the game. The other one is blocking Draynor which could be done even by doing it on someone else killing Count Draynor. If you accidentally do it and block a few hits, then I guess your run should be considered multilog. But if you do it with an alt, all you do is login. You don't even have to click through the welcome screen. To me and everyone else setting up an authenticator and verfying an email isn't fun, yet you still do that. Because it makes the run faster and more enjoyable throughout for that reason. Same reasoning applies here with multilogging. It doesn't deter from how the game is supposed to be played, isn't against the rules, and makes the game faster. For those reasons it should be allowed plain and simple. If you really feel so strongly against it then why are these opinions becoming vocalized now with no real reason? If you can feel bothered enough to set up an authenticator then you should easily be able to be bothered enough to make two alts which will already happen just by running the game twice.
It wasn't fun just because of them losing all of their runs to it.
You're not gonna lose runs to trading over half a certificate and blocking Count Draynor (which without an alt, would lose you runs and be extremely not fun)
EZScape, you make a really good point about the authenticator setup being used but not being fun to do. This is no different.
My personal belief about Shield of Arrav is that if you're going to do that, the speedrun starts when the first account is created
I've also held these beliefs since like March of last year and I've definitely vocalized them before but the only person who cared about multilogging back then (phantasem) basically disappeared after a few weeks. I've also vocalized them on my stream and in my runs plenty of times since someone asks about it almost every run
Yeah except you would then have to make two accounts for each run. That's a bit much and you would have to use a third alt to fight off the storeroom keeper. Otherwise I would agree.
If the rule for multilogging becomes that time starts when first account creates character, I'm fine with it
I mean I'm not really against that, to be honest. It'd make it significantly more annoying having to create 2 accounts (although only 1 of which will need the authenticator set up so it's not AS bad) but I definitely have agreed with this belief in the past like I believe things that Banjo Kazooie the time should start before they start doing the glitch to get all of the moves unlocked.