- It's not running the vanilla game. You cannot hold R on Eden, and thereby see like what, 5x as many seeds as anyone playing the vanilla game, drastically reducing your time investment to get a viable seed, creating an unfair advantage.
- The first input of the run, holding R to start it, is done by a tool. The run is thereby clearly a TAS. End of discussion.
- Resetting is part of the time investment for a run, whether it counts towards the time or not. In Spelunky, an any% run takes 2 minutes, but finding the good shop needed for it takes maybe 2 hours, so during the run, you feel incredibly pressured because the total time investment for this run was 2 hours. Finding the perfect seed is part of the time investment, you gain a huge advantage in terms of your resources by letting a tool do this, even if the tool had to normally reset Eden by going back to the menu. Let me make a comparison. In Dark Souls 1, you need to get a random drop weapon to start a speedrun. How about I just mod my droprate to 100%? On the actual run, there is no difference to any other run that actually has the weapon, so this is totally fine to do right? No, it's not, because it gives me a huge advantage cutting out the time spent on failed attempts, which are part of running the game.
I really don't understand how anyone can be fine with this run. It's insulting to the runners who actually did invest their own sweat and time into getting their runs, and thereby disrespectful and insulting to the whole community.
Technically you can hold R on Eden, there is just a block in the code loop for resetting on that character ID. I'm more than happy to release the tool if anyone else is interested in it. I'll even go as far as cleaning it up and potentially making the hotkey to turn it on/off customization (highly unlikely, that's a lot more work). But I can take a poll on what people would like and so on. I think this is kind of blowing what he's doing out of proportion, as he was specifically going for a single char only, where I think almost every one of the other runs posted were from multi-char runs. While he is going specifically for the 1 char record, that means he's probably spending more time than most people do on the character honestly, since he's only looking to go for specific synergies, not ones that will get him a 10-15 minute run, which are far more likely to show up.
To be fair, I also think MissingHUD should be removed as it's actively pushing code injection throughout the entirety of a run. Again, this isn't against you Pibo, but if you want to talk about this kind of thing, this is a valid argument. Previously I brought this up and you claimed if MissingHUD was removed, we should remove the item tracker. However, now that AB has an in-game HUD, this argument seems pretty pointless, since the in-game HUD shows you exactly what you'd D4 into, or what your Eden char starts with. The item tracker also makes validating a run much easier. It is also NOT using code injection or reading memory. If you're okay with MissingHUD but not okay with anything like this, it seems like you're just trying to make an argument to argue. If you're not okay with MissingHUD after this, I will invalidate your runs, and you are free to run them again without MissingHUD in it.
I honestly would like to have a real conversation about this. You can throw whatever insults at this community you want, but in the end, it gets the conversation no where and people are less likely to agree with what you're saying in the future.
@Pibonacci: Seeing as this community already has accepted forms of tool assists you can't just point a finger at the new one and call for a ban based purely on the fact that it's a tool assist without in the process removing the previous ones. The item tracker is far superior to the in-game one which doesn't show the full history without hitting start and losing time and gives an advantage over those not using it. I'm not as familiar with MissingHUD but from what I've seen advantage is gained by having information displayed you normally wouldn't have access to.
@sillypears: I assumed the Eden tool was already publicly available, if it's not then it needs to be so that anyone can go and try to do what Zamiell did. I think we all would agree on that the way of which we reset Eden is tedious, this tool should be the norm and widely accepted by the time Afterbirth+ hits. It's a quality of life mod that just should have been an option in the game to begin with..
eur0pa provided me the framework back in March to build it. It was more just a thing for me to do at the time and I didn't think anyone would ever actually use it. I think it would be unfair to include it in multi-char at this point as all of the current records with Eden in them do not use it. For 1 char, it obviously doesn't matter. I'll have to attempt to clean it up if anyone does want it, but resets between characters are a thing and for any record that doesn't start with Eden it's actually unfair. So while Eden is tedious if you don't start Eden then I think it shouldn't be used mid-run.
No you're absolutely right, which is why I meant that this should be a thing for all the categories only once Afterbirth+ DLC hits. Until then it shouldn't be for more than the 1 char. If we could hold R to reset Eden for the new expansion categories that would be great.
So following this logic everyone can use that program for eden resets on 7-13 chars too for example? Like it's of course take less time to reset with R then quit every time?
So following this logic everyone can use that program for eden resets on 7-13 chars too for example? Like it's of course take less time to reset with R then quit every time?
Not sure how you got that from this post. If Eden is your 1st character I think it's fine. If it's mid-run, then no, I would say you shouldn't be using it mid-run as the precedent set in the past was to exit and start a new run. If it's your first character this would just get rid of the tedious nature and not impact your total run time since you remove any of the reset times. If you're referring to the AB+ that Firkraag mentioned, then we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
If interested in continuing this discussion, move to the original thread, as posting the same thing over and over again isn't doing anyone any good.
