I believe that the existence of a category that is relatively easy to challenge (e.g. Bobby death% , streamer IL's, or other categories discussed in past threads) will energize the community and result in a better Any% and 100% charts.

どうでしょうか...？ 長い間、結論が出ていないテーマなので、難しいかもしれませんが......

I agree, I think at the very least Red Streamer% would be a good addition as a leaderboard category, there is already activity in this challenge and Overook Tower Early differentiates the category from simply being “Any% cutoff after defeating Pencil”

I believe the only prerequisite is that we should not fill up the leaderboards with a bunch of empty categories, so we should definitely limit the amount that we add. If we can put together a list of the most-requested ones, we can probably add them. Or, if there's too many, we can put it to a vote.

My idea is about streamer or called chapters, the chapter 1 or red streamer start when you enter the game and finish when the confeti expand animation ends, the chapter 2 or blue streamer star after that animation end and finish with the same thing that chapter 1 finished with the confeti, so if you are in a full run you can publish also your best streamers runs, and if you wanna try it alone, you can save before the bossfight and start when the confeti animation end (that is because some chapters have text boxes after that so in a full run that can be easy to estimate). And if that isn´t a good idea, we can try when the autosave finished the load, so it´s easy to restart in alone runs but it will take a little more time for the full run.

I think something along the lines of "All Toads" might be beneficial, whether as a less daunting alternative to 100% or literally ending when you get the trophy for ""All"" Toads. I think there'd be enough routing changes to justify it either way.

Also, not a main leaderboard idea, but I'd consider adding a "Boss Rush" of sorts to the IL page, taking on and beating all 15 in the Bossotronic.

I think Bossrush, streams and all toads can be in the full run game category, like with the ringer

Red streamer% is the most realistic in streamer categories because the start and end timing is obvious, the rules are easy to define, and there is little data preparation required for execution. It takes about an hour and is easy to challenge. There are also difficult optimizations and "Overook Tower Early," making this a challenging category for top players. Except that the tutorial part is a bit boring.

Although it would make doing new attempts annoying, if we did red streamer% maybe we should start somewhere past the forest? The start doesn’t have a lot of optimisations and it’s likely that without mistakes, people would complete it around a similar time. It’s only around toad town where skips like macho goomba skip can widen the time difference between skilled and less skilled runners. The only problem is for every new attempt you’d have to get to that point, like toad town.

I think we need to include the start of the game, I mean, if we discoverd some skips in the start or in the forest, that also count for Red streamer. Also don´t forget the other streamer, that would be interesting

Yeah that's true. The other streamers would also be interesting, just time consuming to reattempt the closer it is to the end. If you did green streamer you'd have to play the rest of the game just to try once. And there'd have to be some thought of when does timer start on other streamers, not just the first. For example, does purple streamer start as soon as yellow is broken? Or when you get back to toad town from the desert, or when you first leave toad town on the sea? There could be a few places where purple streamer 'starts' or where yellow 'ends', same with the others.

Yeah we’d need a bit more time to establish ground rules for the other Streamer ILs as categories, since it can depend on what you’ve done prior to the start of the streamer.

Cloud saves would make doing streamer ILs post red less tedious, but I don’t know how that would affect activity in the category after some time has passed.

Another point is if these would be 100% IL's or any%. They'd both have different routes of course but then that's also ten new categories, 12 if you count the final chapter, and then if they're all added, it's back to what Sayuri said about not having too many categories with pretty much no one running them. 12 or even 10 seems quite a lot.

If any new categories are added then I'd vouch the hardest for Red Streamer% due to reasons already said in this thread (Ease of Access in preparation and time commitment, differentiation from Any% with Overlook Tower Early, etc.) it's what got me to run this game before trying an Any% run and even with the tutorials I still find it to be enjoyable.

For the other streamer IL's I feel it can be a bit tricky to define when it starts. If I had to choose I'd probably say the first input after the autosave that occurs after clearing a streamer, or the A press for selecting the file that has said autosave, it's arbitrary by nature but I'll probably start there for Streamer IL's just so it can be retimed if an alternate timing method is adopted. Although that said I feel like they have massive potential with you can set it up however you like (with the detriment of having to set that up without being able to copy files over) which can lead to some good routing for those categories, though having to set that up from the beginning of the game to there for each streamer IL if they're ever going to get more optimized from the lowered time commitment per run than other RTA categories, then I find that unlikely and a good case as to why it wouldn't be run often

I like the idea Boss Rush as a category, nothing much more to say about it other than I wouldn't run it due to not running Boss IL's much other than to practice Any% strats which are typically slower but more consistent, also I would find it hard to work around the meta where getting a new record on your own leaderboard would lose time from an autosave as a meta

I'm not too sure on this, but idk if you would count All Toads as a "Full Run" category since there doesn't seem to be any Toads saved Post-Green Streamer and only 1 in Green Streamer, so if you don't have to progress the story past the last toad saved in Green Streamer to get the Toad Trophy then it'd just be optimal to stop mid-green streamer and go back to Toad Town to finish the run out. Just wanted to throw that out there but I like the idea of All Toads regardless lmao

Bobby Death% is probably the weakest of these imo, since I feel like it's just Any% lite, but I'd be open to it as a more accessible way to get into Any% without having to commit more consecutive hours just to get a run on the leaderboards. Now if we were to eventually find a way to bring Bobby to the end of the game with in-game means, then I'd vouch for a True Bobby Run where Bobby's with you until the very end of the game or whatever that entails

I'll probably try these out (excluding Boss Rush and Bobby Death% most likely) when I can after finals week in college and possibly more ideas if y'all can think of any

I feel like 100% IL's are arbitrary af and shouldn't be on the boards, mainly with stuff like the Homeowner Toad that (I think) counts for Picnic Road, but you can't get until Chapter 4, so for Chapter 1 100% IL would you have to go all the way to Chapter 4 and then come back with 100% completion on Chapter 1? Or if it's just completing everything you can in a given chapter for 100% more distinction has to be made on that imo

Oh yeah definitely, for all these runs that don't have clear and obvious rules, there'd need to be more time to consider them and what you need to do in each run, when it starts etc. Other run ideas that come to mind are Not Bottomless holes all repaired, all collectible treasures or all ? blocks hit. Of all these i'd probably say all collectible treasures would be the best out of them all. ? blocks aren't very often off the any% path iirc and non bottomless holes may be fun but i feel like nearer the end of the game there's less and less of them. Only 12/45 different 'areas' (according to the game's map) don't have collectible treasures, half just in chapter 4's islands, so since most of the game has collectible treasures, i think that'd be good. We'd need to decide if trophies count but i think it may be a cool idea.

I think the gategory of every stream can be separated like the Ringer is separeted, you put the category "Streamers" or "Chapters" and that how we can separate, trying to say how the stream will count, well, I thinking about you can publish your chapters run that you did in a full run, so if we trying doing when the autosave of every chapter end, that would be easy for the people that use cloud save and start the savedata, the time will start as soon as Mario appears at the screen, not when you select the save data, Why? because that could be more easy to submit for those who do full runs and wanna submit it too (yeah I think this method is more accesible than mine (save before the bossfigth and start when the screen of the confeti of the previous chapter end) and well the time end like normal, when the green screen of the confetti is off. (I support my idea for been more precise, why? because there is more text boxes before the autosave appears, in overlook tower, in shogun studios, in yellow stream the toads say thank you and that is part of the purple stream I feel, Idk it depends on how we decided it for individual runners and full game runners

And for BossRush, I have a crazy idea and is including King Olly too, how? well, the time will start when WE ENTER TO THE MACHINE (i mean, when the green screen appers, why, i feel it count like we entering to the boss ), and after we beat all the bosses (you need to beat then first if you don´t wanna that the bowser trophy animation appears) we left that and go to King olly suit and beat him, stoping the time in the last hit of king olly. We need to honor all the bosses, Olly too

One way to potentially combat the meta of Autosaves losing time for some people in a Boss Rush category, would be to simply sum up the in-game time for each boss, which is something done for certain categories of games (I think one of the Punch Out game leaderboards works like this?)

Wait that i don´t think that, because you know, you can select all you bossfight ingame best segment and put it together, I think when we do a bossrush, is not about like only the bosses, it´s the move that you do to get the goal, like a moutain and in every high there is a boss, you need to be faster going to it, and in a one run, also include king olly, It´s crazy that we talk about bossrush bot olly is excluded D:

Oh yeah that could work. So you mean we count the time from bosses and not menu's/getting to king olly? I think that'd work as if we want to do a boss rush, the focus is on bosses, not getting through the castle as fast as possible

Boss IL's aren't really my thing, but I do feel like having a sum of each consecutive Boss IL would be a lot better than timing the full run with the transitions put in for that meta reason. And with that I don't think adding King Olly as an IL for the Boss Rush would make a lot of sense since with this since that has to be run with a timer running independent of the game instead of the Game's Bossatronic timer, so then it'd add more complexity to the timing process of adding up all the different in-game times for all of the Bosses and then walking out of the Bossatronic to King Olly, setting up an external timer, timing the start and end of King Olly and adding that up, where I think it'd just be better to just do the bosses already in the Bossatronic, plus for the in-game timer to be so specific and precise adding an RTA element where the run will probably need to be retimed and thus the total is off just wouldn't work well for the category imo, even if we're going to stay in the total time taken with scrolling especially since then it'd also include optimal movement to King Olly which for a Boss Rush category seems dumb imo

didn't see the past 2 posts while writing this lmao, even if you're excluding that wouldn't really fix the problems with the RTA timed King Olly likely not being as precise as the other IGT Bosses