Redefinition of Rules
8 years ago
Bretagne, France

'a natural way being any tiles but solid walls'

this is why i said it could be reformulate better. As long as there is nothing which prevent Link from screen transitioning, it would be a natural way. Natural as 'the map shape permits it', not as 'you can go there casually'

Bretagne, France

No because you end up in a wall after the screen transition, as the flame fountain 'V2'.

And you cannot SJ in a cave so you can't even reach those screen edges.

Poitou-Charentes, France

I think this could be much better cleared up just with short concised rulesets on each category page. For instance:

Any% Rules:

Finish The Game.

All Instruments%:

Collect all 8 instruments. Finish The Game

Any% No S&Q:

Collect all 8 instruments. Finish The Game

No Wrong Warp No Out of Bounds No ACE No S&Q No Deathwarps

See definitions at bottom

Any% S&Q:

Collect all 8 instruments Finish The Game

No Wrong Warp No Out of Bounds No ACE

See definitions at bottom

100%:

Collect all 8 Instruments Collect all 12 Heart Pieces Collect all 3 Upgrades (Powder, Bombs, Arrows) Collect all 12(?) Pictures Collect Ocarina + All 3 songs Collect Level 2 Sword from 20 Seashells Collect Boomerang through trading quest Collect either blue or red tunic Finish The Game

No Wrong Warp No Out Of Bounds No ACE

See definitions at bottom

Definitions:

Wrong Warp - A screen transition that takes you to a destination unintended by the game. (Suggested by Disclude) Example: Doghouse, Grim Creeper Warp

--

Out of Bounds -

  1. Screen transitioning where the last tile Link's Sprite occupied is a tile unable to be naturally occupied by Link's Sprite.
  2. Positioning Link's Sprite on two consecutive tiles in which Link's Sprite cannot naturally occupy.
  3. Using Superswim to Remove Collision. Examples of OoB: Walls, Doors, Areas outside of designated cave walls. Examples of Non-OoB: Pits, Lava, Water, Switch Blocks.

--

ACE (Arbitory Code Execution) - Using file names to warp to credits.

--

S&Q - Using the save and quit function.

--

Deathwarping - Intentionally or Unintentionally dieing where the number of screen transitions to the next destination is less than if a death had not occurred.

These are in effect what we have at the moment. I think the key here is where Link's sprite can naturally appear. Under this, the debated topics:

  • Villa Skip - Allowed
  • Dungeon 4 Tunnel Traveling to D4 - Banned
  • Jesus Jumping - Allowed
  • Dungeon 6 Boss Key Superjump Return - Allowed if done correctly, Softlocking counts as OoB
  • Rooster Skip Skip - Banned
  • Flame Skip Skip - Banned
  • Blaino Skip - Banned
  • Dungeon 8 Switchblock Skip - Allowed
  • Dungeon 7 Boss Key Skip - Allowed
  • Grim Creeper Glitch - Banned
  • Dungeon 4 Superswim - Banned

Does this make it easier to understand? I do not know the exact definitions for WW and ACE, so correct me with those, and take what you will from those definitions. Just putting my input in to see if I could add clarity to what we already have.

Virginia, USA

I am going to echo what Flynn and Zorlax said. If the sticking point is the Blaino skip in D8 cus of that one off tile, I missed that in the original discussions. I think all the other things of the +1 nonsense I came up with works.

Don't allow the Blaino skip tile. Don't invalidate runs using it (there are newer glitches that CAN be used that save more time). I don't think the "corner" in D6 is an issue. Draw a grid like the game is programmed in an XY plane (cus it is) and then see where you can walk. Is that +1 block in any direction? Yea. Then it's chill. The D8 one goes +2: from the north, Block THEN tile. East: Tile under the torches, wall, THEN tile. West: Wall then tile. South: Not accessable.

England

Cravone's rulesets and definitions sound perfect to me. This is what i'd like to see happen.

Bretagne, France

There's a problem with your OoB definition Cravone, as Grim Creeper glitch isn't a Wrong Warp.

Poitou-Charentes, France

Ammended WW definition slightly.

United States

[Also 100% will need to be tightened up to include things like, "acquire EACH of the 12 pieces of heart", and "get Color tunic FROM the Color dungeon."]

Also "Positioning Link's Sprite on two consecutive tiles in which Link's Sprite cannot naturally occupy," implies that wall clipping to bypass enemies (exiting D2, Armos knight maze) is not allowed.

Sweden

Just copying this from Skype as a little "comparision" of sorts... I hope you get what I mean with this:

Tompa: The stairs on floor 3 in D7, before collapse, are interesting... Should they be allowed? [00:03:58] Tompa: But if the stairs would take you inside the egg. Would they be allowed? [00:05:48] Tompa: It's just that: If we say yes to the stairs, then we also have to say yes to their destination, right? [00:06:09] Tompa: Here it is "lucky" that they take us to a place in the same dungeon, without skipping too much [00:06:35] Tompa: But where will the line go? [00:07:39] Tompa: If my point is understood =) [00:07:46] giuocob: that was exactly the problem with the celing walk in tal tal heights [00:07:55] giuocob: we were ok with it when it just skipped a couple rooms [00:08:05] giuocob: but once the same trick broke the game we had to go back and retcon everything [00:09:48] Tompa: If another stairs would exist, let's say in D1, but they took you to the egg, then no one would allow those stairs, but still allow the one in D7, despite being the same thing technically [00:10:03] Tompa: Similar case would be to allow Doghouse 1 but not Doghouse 2 [00:10:44] Tompa: My point being: The origin is that the community want glitches that don't skip "too much" but still skips "certain things" [00:11:09] Tompa: Sometimes that makes certian glitches allowed in special places, because in other places they would be too major [00:11:25] Tompa: So "external rules" were made so that the major places would not working on the ruleset [00:12:16] Tompa: Something is found, saves 1 second in a dungeon. Then crap: This can be use here too which saves 1 minute! We don't want to skip that... What should we do? Hmm, let's say because of that and that, we may not use the glitch there. Everyone OK? OK, good [00:12:26] Tompa: And arbitary rules have been created, yet again

Also: Why isn't something like D5 boss key skip technically allowed?

Bretagne, France

Okay so I'm illustrating my rule about Screen Transitioning, as it is not well written.

So Villa Skip is a problem, the screen edge being there.

My definition of natural ways would be everything but walls, as long as you don't arrive in a wall after Screen Transitioning it's ok. Like, the 'natural' being literally 'how the lands are shaped'.

Let's take this place, and imagine if there would be a screen edge there. It would still be alright, just because the way it is shaped makes it possible.

Now if we do this with the Villa Skip, it looks like this, therefore, it's alright to do Villa Skip.

However, what about this screen? Let's take a look at how it is when you Screen Transition. Well, there's a wall in there, and even if you fall in the pit as you fall in Villa Skip, the wall are not the same as flowers, you can't break them or anything. Then, the shape of this room looks like this. So it is not allowed. Same with Flame Fountain Skip 'V2'.

Bretagne, France

We are going to stick to the old ones. But we are also going to rewrite them properly. That's all.

Germany

I also agree with Zorlax. The only well-defined categories at the moment are any% and No major glitches (Legacy%). I was also thinking that our current ruleset is really weird, but in retrospective it worked out really nice. We should just go and disallow Blaino skip from now on, because that's what Seabass' ruleset said (no big deal, no real need to delete/unverify runs because of that). To the (maybe OoB) SJ in D6: I found another way around that a few weeks ago. After getting the NK clip into the pots and Flockclip past the keyblock (and get the small key afterwards). Might even be faster than the SJ (also saves a menu). VoD:

I really don't know how I should decide this. On the one hand I think: Woohoo! No more Rooster skip! But on the other hand I think I would miss these tension-filled moments when RS is coming up.

For now I'll say, let's just stick to the old ruleset, but define it better. (I also wouldn't mind yet another category which allows some of the more "crazy" SJs + superswimming)

Warr90 likes this
Texas, USA

Although this debate seems almost over, nor did i read the majority of it, and my input is most likely not at all significant anymore: I believe redefining the rules is good, and tweaking things such as disallowing blaino skip and the one in d6 (which wouldn't lose much time, prob like 5s at most) would be a good thing. However, creating new rulesets for the second time this year is just angering to runners, and although i dont play the game anymore just reading about changes in rulesets makes me unhappy. Anyway, hope you guys sort this all out. gl :)

-Riddler

United States

Also, every Thursday should be Free Ice Cream Day.

Z7

Sickynar and Flynn like this
Sweden

"cannot be destroyed." That would mean D5 boss key skip is allowed =). As you can jump into the room where the keylock is, and object which you can "destroy".

Germany

My understanding now is this: We basically defined OoB as standing/walking on ("unreachable" - the game didn't intend that Link's sprite is on one of those tiles) ceiling tiles and transitioning to another screen through a wall. Maybe we could also ban standing in walls/solid objects in general (would only affect the backward D6 SJ afaik). SJs shouldn't be banned though, because we sort of jump over a wall/solid object and don't really walk through. Don't know if that makes sense, someone will probably find one or a thousand loopholes in my definition.

But I think we are definitely getting somewhere and we can all start running this game again :)

Québec

so is it safe to assume that everything stay the same except for D6 and D8 miniboss skip?

Germany

Ok ok ok :D My vote also goes to the old ruleset, except for banning Blaino skip for the future.

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