@Oreo321 What I basically took away from it is that a community cannot move their leaderboards off of sr.c unless they get permission from every single current and past verifier and every single current and past runner as of the new TOS being in place. Basically they're legally locking communities into staying on the site by making the demands to leave too absurd to comply with. Also apparently showing us ads and such was against the previous license making it completely illegal.
THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE INFORMATION OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE INFORMATION. I AM NOT YOUR LAWYER.
Thank you for bringing this news to the site, this is concerning to say the least
https://speedrun.com/legal "We may modify these Terms of Use at any time. Any such modifications will apply prospectively, from the date the modifications are made, as designated by the “Last Revised” date depicted above." ... There is no "Last Revised" date depicted above. So we don't even know which runs cannot be moved away from the site.
Edit: presumably sometime during June 23rd according to this post: https://twitter.com/TheNameOfMike/status/1413735024386527232
Yeah basically the last time it really got massively modified was June 23rd, it appears to have been edited once on June 25th to change the minimum age from 16 to 13 but otherwise yeah June 23rd was the last real modification.
Edit: adding this in so people can see the whole edit history that has been logged currently: https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/ohamgv/lost_in_the_gdq_event_hype_and_other_things/h4o8aru?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
This is concerning to say the least...
I'm not gonna approve runs until I have more information which is the exact date & time that runs are not under Creative Commons anymore. I guess I'll have to mark the runs in the leaderboards I manage if they are (CC) or "new TOS". Screenshots + comments should hopefully do the trick for now.
OR another spontaneous idea: adding a variable to the runs to make it visible if it is (CC) or not. I have to ponder about that.
[quote=1]What I basically took away from it is that a community cannot move their leaderboards off of sr.c unless they get permission from every single current and past verifier and every single current and past runner as of the new TOS being in place[/quote] I don't think this could possibly be true. SRC doesn't host videos of runs, doesn't have ownership over them, and therefore can't validly claim copyright regarding them. The length of each run is information contained within the videos themselves, so src can't have ownership of that, either. As such, they can't stop you or anyone else from making & maintaining your own leaderboards. I suppose they could potentially claim ownership over the description of the run, but that's really a secondary issue in the scheme of things.
Obviously, it's possible for them to make bs copyright claims/takedowns, but that would be the case regardless of the TOS.
[QUOTE=hahhah42] I don't think this could possibly be true. SRC doesn't host videos of runs, doesn't have ownership over them, and therefore can't validly claim copyright regarding them. [/QUOTE] They claim ownership of the data regarding the run such as the category, time, etc. from what I understood.
[QUOTE=jackzfiml] After reading this thread, I have a feeling that Elo is gonna get sued someday. [/QUOTE] If we wanted to, they could have been sued (successfully) for not cooperating with GDPR before they had added the option to export data.
[quote]They claim ownership of the data regarding the run such as the category, time, etc. from what I understood.[/quote] Not clear at this time that this is the case. Also, not entirely relevant—regardless of how the TOS is worded, they can't make a valid claim to ownership over data that's contained in videos they don't own.
For a straightforward example, consider games that use IGT. If I decided to make a site with a list of the fastest times in Deepest Sword, they couldn't stop me from making a list of video links, as they don't own those. The time is clearly visible in the video of each of the runs, so they don't have a valid claim to ownership over that detail simply because someone chose to submit the run to this site. It's a simple observation that anyone who watches the video can make & comment on. So they couldn't stop me from including the time of each run as a descriptor in my list of links, either.
Sooo… should I stop verifying runs for now? I’m not sure how I should be approaching this as mod of a small board.
I'll certainly stop submitting runs and won't ("officially") verify runs that are less than 20 days old (to give elo time to resolve this and be somewhat fair to people that want their run on a board regardless).
Hi all,
This was an error of omission as we updated the TOS for other reasons (it's pretty standard boilerplate, but needs to be there). We have not made any change to how runs (or other community metadata or resources) are licensed or made accessible. To make that perfectly clear, we've re-introduced the language making it clear that all submissions are made accessible under the original CC license.
To clarify our stance on the topic, we strongly believe in SR.C as an open platform for use by communities, and we have no interest in restricting access to any runs or community resources. We see it as our duty to keep this information available online forever.
I'm sorry for the miscommunication (it was my mistake) and will be more careful in the future. With that said, please understand that while Elo is a company, it's run by people (myself included) who truly do care about the core mission of the site - helping communities organize, grow, and preserving history. The last thing we want to do is restrict access to resources that are owned by the community.
Thanks for reading. I hope it alleviates your concerns. I'm happy to elaborate if anything is unclear.
- Jason, CTO at Elo
I think the very swift and panicked state of the people when they saw this update without any clarity from SR.C should show Elo that there truly isn't any trust left on this platform. Many communities bundled together to say that too many bad updates in a row was enough and showed that leaving wouldn't be a bad thing for many communities. I really hope Elo takes that in and tries to make the site better and shows a lot more transparency otherwise I believe that lots of communities, including my small one, will take this elsewhere.