A new route has been found that saves about 1 and a half minutes off the previous route. Shoutouts to Roy's chat for figuring this out. Note: This requires an FDS to get Minus World Ending, so WR runs will basically have to be played on FDS, NES with Everdrive/PowerPak or an emulator with FDS support from now on. Here's the new route, which could lead to a sub 6 (at least, in TAS):

• 1-1
• 1-2 (Clip through the wall in any way, go to -1)
• -1
• -2
• -3 From here, you do worlds/levels in any order you want. Here are the ones you need to do:
• 2-1
• 3-1
• 5-1
• 5-2
• 6-1
• 6-2 A good route that makes most fails early (3-4 minutes) in the run would do world 5 first, and then world 6, and then do world 2 or 3 in any order you want. With this new route, and potentially every strat known in All Coin Heavens, sub 6 MAY be possible. The question is: Who will do it? The WR as of me posting this is a 6:22 by RoyLGamer. Will post updates in the replies if there are other WRs, as I'm watching his stream right now.

wen sub 8 seemed kinda hard but then sub 7 becomes free and sub 6 is possible

Wait a minute this isn't allowed

"Unless otherwise stated in the goal or rules, runs are completed in 1st quest only. Some examples of banned 2nd quest usage would be using 2nd quest after beating the game to select a world for missed fireworks in the 144 Fireworks Race, using 2nd quest and selecting a world in All Coin Heavens etc" -barnowl

Rip.

Actually never mind We should've read the rest lol "Beating minus world doesn't count as beating 1st quest."

We'll see if this is allowed (hopefully it is BlessRNG )

It was in the all water areas record

Yeah, but it specifically stated Minus World was allowed there...

I submitted the run. It's in the mods hands now to discuss. Either we scrap the old rule if it doesn't allow it or we make a separate category. Either way this is a definite speedrun that needs to be a thing and shouldn't be ignored.

Barnowl said he was fine with the new route.

POGGERS

I had originally followed the global ban on Level Select for ACH, but upon further thought it makes sense to me to complete the coin heavens in either quest, therefore collecting them in second quest (which is what happens when you beat MWE - you're put into second quest) should be fine. While this does remove some content that was very good imo (i liked 5-4 and multiple 1-1s and 1-2s, and especially optimal 1-1 with FPG and 1-2 with run under and lip jumps - great content) and it also obsoletes runs that were done under a previous rule set, I am personally for the change. The worst thing about it is that it obsoletes runs done under another (arguably more difficult optimally) rule set.

I definitely don't think we need to add any more categories to deal with this, though, so the best thing to do imo is to allow Level Select in ACH.

This would only affect categories that do not beat the game - beating the game is still globally defined as beating bowser in first quest, so 1 warp, all 1up mushrooms etc would not be affected. If I'm not mistaken 10 Lives could be affected, can't remember.

My view was always that FDS-only tricks should only be allowed in categories that are explicitly for FDS or allow FDS explicitly in the rules, but it doesn't seem to be written anywhere.

But it was already used in SoloQ's all water areas WR.

All Water Areas was allowed to beat the game in second quest because it's specifically a MWE and Level Select designed category (for fastest route anyway) - would be kinda dumb to be required to beat the game first then do MWE. Also the final water area is right before bowser.

However - Water Areas is not required to be FDS-only since world -1 is the water area, and you can soft reset after it. FDS is just the fastest route. Same would be true for RoyL Coin Heavens, not required but is fastest route. In Minus World Ending and the old category "Both Endings," FDS is actually required (and stated).

On that note, I miss "Both Endings," that was a great i_o_l category. There were at least 3 runs of it...

Anyway, original spirit of ACH was to do them all in first quest. At the time when NickJ and I started messing around with ACH, Level Select was widely considered bad to use, so we didn't even consider using the MWE route (we knew about that route). We thought the building pressure of needing a good 1-2 a few times in one run was kinda cool - there wasn't even an RTA viable FPG at the time, if I remember correctly, but requiring a few good 1-1s with FPG for optimal run is also pretty cool.

1-2g possiblity makes the RoyL Coin Heavens route arguably just as good aesthetically, though, if not better

I'm for the new route ^^ However, I'll need to use emulator if I want to get a shot of getting the WR back!