Forums  /  Portal series  /  Portal  /  Proposal to skip the vault via save (also posted on sourceruns)
  noircatnoircat

For all the time I've played this game, the relaxation vault has been the biggest thorn in my side whenever it came to runs. It's an unpleasant and unnecessary aspect of the run that continues to be the source of constant frustration. I would like to put an end to this.

My idea is to create a save in which the player stands still during the first 53 seconds of the relaxation vault, make said save publicly available and exclusively allowed (having a community standard save would eliminate potential confusion, cheating, etc.).

The demo associated with the creation of the save would also be public, and would be used for timing purposes for runners that solely use demos to record their runs.

Use of the save would mean adding 53 seconds to your final time (or starting at 53 seconds in the case of livesplit). The run timing would still essentially start at you gaining control.

Use of the save would be completely optional, if you rather set something up during the 53 seconds that would be skipped you would be free to do so, but you would forfeit that opportunity if you decided to use the save.

This would not be applicable anywhere else, no other period of waiting would be potentially skipped as this only works because it is from the start of the game with no inputs.

By introducing this we would have to take into consideration how it would change the way runs are defined. Taken at face value, this would either be an incredibly long RTA run (days, months, or even years depending on how long your run took place after the save was initially made), or a very slow segmented run (POR and PDI would be rough competition to say the least.) Arguably it would become an arbitrary exception to these definitions.

Arbitrary doesn't matter though, otherwise we would have to call into question the entire basis of the rules. We have decided to allow and bar various commands based on our own perceptions of what would make the most sense for a speedrun (ent_fire, save deletion, toggle_duck, aliases, etc.) We don't use a simple logical system to define the rules because doing so would make for rules that end a poor user experience.

If we are to assume that the systems we have in place now ultimately exist to benefit the user experience, making an exception for the benefit of the user experience would be the only reasonable course of action.

The decision of whether or not to put this system into place should be made by those who would actively be affected by it. This would include any current runners and any runners that would return upon the implementation of the proposed system. In the interest of objectivity and fairness, all votes should be given equal value.

53 seconds of no inputs is the same whether you experience it or not, personally I would rather not.

//Edit//
Link to the save and demo http://bit.ly/1hniIya >>START AT 53.01<<

GoodleShoesGoodleShoes, SkizzieSkizzie and 2 others like this. 
  karl__kkarl__k

Although I have a shitty 14:45 therefore I'm not a very serious runner, I would come back to Portal if this change was implemented.

 
  PersonmanPersonman

I'm not a runner, but as a fan of Portal speedruns, it would be really damn nice if the community adopted this. Watching nothing for a minute isn't very fun.

If only this solution could be applied to Mario64 and OoT as well...

 
  FnzzyFnzzy

If you want to do it let's all agree that it should be allowed. As for the "you can speed up the vault/set something up during it" then don't use the save. For people who don't set up anything this would be a good solution for anyone who thinks the vault is damaging their sanity.

As for the "it's technically a segmented run with 2 segments" I agree with that, but I also think that we should maybe make an exception for that.

Also yes. If this gets through split screenshots should no longer be a viable form of proof (as it should have been in the first place!)

 
  TechnicalGordonTechnicalGordon

well it should be a option to do it but if you don't want to do it just don't it

 
  JumpyluffJumpyluff

I'd like to take a moment to point out that this would not be the only case of this predicament.

Any Banjo-Tooie speedrunner knows how much Jinjo RNG can affect a speedrun. It can cost you minutes depending on the category, all for no reason. What the vast vast majority of runners do is have a permanent backup save file with the desired Jinjo RNG. They copy the save to the speedrun file (slot A) and start timing when selecting the file.

Because Jinjo RNG is determined at the very start of the game, the way you do it is as follows.
-Start a new file
-Immediately quit out to the main menu
-Backup the file-
-Play through the game until you see what color Jinjos are located in what positions
-If incorrect, try again, if correct, keep the backup save
-Copy save file to speedrunning slot, play runs from there

There's a whole pastebin on it if I wasn't clear enough. Anyway, yeah, this totally makes sense. It's a segmented speedrun, but it's very very specific segments. In Banjo-Tooie's case, it's a 3 second segment followed by the rest of the run in the other segment. In Portal, it would be the very specific vault segment followed by the rest of the run in the other segment. As long as these 2 segments are defined properly, it's reasonable to implement this change. Make sure to word the rules properly, don't let there be any loopholes to where people can submit a segmented run with 2 segments split anywhere but at the vault.

Yeah, that's my opinion on it.

GoodleShoesGoodleShoes likes this. 
  XeiZXeiZ

Seems to be a bit of a different case but shows that other games do stuff like this too as long as the option for it is there.
This does not affect anything of the run as in rng or something.

 
  XeiZXeiZ

Forgot to mention, if this gets through demos will become a natural requirement as proof. Not that those are too hard to make...

 
  CubefaceCubeface

I've always supported this idea. It makes the game more appealing to run and more appealing to watch. I think it's better in every way to have it as an option.

 
  L0aderL0ader

This really should have been implemented a while ago. But better late then never.
I would 100% start running portal again if this change goes through. Despite being a casual runner, that wait was a huge turn off when resetting and made the entire run so much more frustrating to lose.
I am completely in favour.

 
  madsenmadsen

Started playing a bit around with Portal inbounds recently, I would LOVE this. L-O-V-E, love!

 
  Remilia_SuikaRemilia_Suika

Iv'e supported this for a long time and continue to support it. it changes nothing with the run and doesn't save any time therefore it should be allowed to reduce headaches from grinding runs.

 
  TKTK

I'm all for this. I may not be the best portal runner but this would be a welcome change.

 
  Pomchee2Pomchee2

I don't believe there any significant flaws in doing this. It doesn't change run times so there's no reason to not do it, really.

 
  BiiWiXBiiWiX

i don't care about skip the vault or not, i will continu not to do it, because i think it's more "prestigious" to do a good run with out vault skip but i don't care.

With the vault skip it's too easy to do 1:58/1:59, if you are consistant or not in the cube throw in 00 you will do it because when you reset, you just have to wait 4sec.

So i will continu to think, all people who do the skip cheat, but i don't care if you want to accept this rule..

 
  diabl075diabl075

That would be quite good, as long as you make a public save that we all have to use, otherwise anyone could set up the clipboard for a perfect stucklaunch and make a save, also i think most new runners will reset hard until they get a decent 00/01 instead of going with what they got, or going for a perfect cube throw, spending overall more time in 00/01. But that would be interesting and I think more people will be interested in running this game if this is allowed, so that would be quite good for the community.

 
  XeiZXeiZ

I dont know about that, people who really were into getting good 00/01's already did reset a lot there anyway, at least i did, maybe im an exception. But yea i thought about biiwix point, however i still think its not a really big advantage, i doubt we will see more sub 2's as cubethrow isnt really the only reason for that to happen. Not many people are capable of getting one in the first place.

 
  360Chrism360Chrism

I definitely don't mind this idea. If there is anyone against it they can just watch the intro but have to deal with the fact that people on the same leaderboard did not.

Do it!

 
  TheMarshmallowTheMarshmallow

I think its dumb that so many people really have a problem with waiting 53seconds at the start of a run... Also if you start the run at 53 seconds, then you're not really timing once you gain control, youre timing from an arbitrary point in the game just to make resets faster. I understand you can make the argument that the end result is the same either way, but to me that doesn't justify starting the game from a save instead of from the actual beginning of the game. If part of the game is adding to the total time, then that part of the game should be actually played instead of skipping an arbitrary amount of time and adding it later.

This could also actually have an effect on times, as like BiiWix pointed out people are more likely to get sub2 00/01 even if theyre not at all consistent at doing it since resets become almost instant. In a way this lowers the skill gap between runners since it becomes easier to get.

How long until people want to skip the 4:30 of elevators in the game? Pretty much every pro-vaultskip argument here could also be applied to that, but im sure a lot of people that are for the vault skip would be completely against that, despite the vault being as much a part of the game as the elevators are.

Speedruns should be about going as fast as you can within the constraints of the game, not starting the game a minute in because its easier.

 
  MrMopi5000MrMopi5000

I agree with TheMarshmallow, and what if we find a vault skip ? the only argument "That's useless, we can't save time here" will be false. So what to do if this happens? remove this rule and reject all the runs using the save ?