Disclaimer: I have no emotional attachment to my very subpar Popeye runs, that's not what this is about.
I feel like the "overhaul/rules change" was handled poorly and sets a bad precedent overall. Changing rules and rejecting runs based on the new rules when the runs were accepted on the old rules does nothing but punish the runners, and in my instance, for runs that I did 2.5 years ago. That's not what we should be doing. It can frustrate the players and/or dissuade them from submitting runs at all. Why should I submit a run if rules can haphazardly be changed whenever and invalidate them? In an extreme scenario if every NES board did this my entire NES speedrun career would be gone because I used Mesen 0.9.8 (which doesn't even have the run ahead feature, 0.9.9 does and it's easy to detect anyway so blanket banning all versions is extreme) and various FCEUX versions.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that rule changes will happen from time to time. I just think this could have been handled better. I've seen plenty of boards with, right at the top: RULES UPDATE AS OF whatever date - The list of allowable emulators has changed. Please be sure your submissions adhere to the new standards. Runs submitted before date will remain as they were accepted based on the rules at the time.
@NESCardinality and I have been around a while so I'm curious about his thoughts regarding this as well.
Thank you for sharing your concerns Char. I am also hoping for feedback from NESCard as well and ASAP we will have a roundtable discussion about this. Keeping this reply brief for now, just so I don't come off like I'm speaking for the group. Very valid points made here, so I want to make sure this is handled the right way. Especially since I'm the one who began the overhaul in the first place.
Why is FCEUX not recommended? I use it in every game and there is no problem hmmm
I have messaged the Moderator responsible for these changes and asked them to re-verify all runs that were rejected as a result of a rule change. It is standard practice for old runs that were accepted under a different set of criteria to remain on leaderboards when a rule change takes place.
For the sake of transparency, this Moderator made all changes to the rules without consulting anybody. On the flip side, they seem to have done a fantastic job updating the boards, retiming old runs, and otherwise preserving the original nature of the board.
I don't know how many runs were rejected, so bottom line, if anyone's run was rejected, feel free to re-submit it with a note stating that it was rejected after having previously been accepted, and I will be happy to re-verify the run and remove the note.
I feel like a roundtable discussion would be best, like what Kuma is suggesting. Also NESCard, please check your dm's. I have been in touch with brkmnly throughout this whole process and re adding any rejected runs will be very simple. I would still not call this overhaul "haphazardly" done or anything of the sort. This has been in the making for a while and we've known this would not be the simplest of things to handle/accomplish. I truly love how the page is formatted at this moment (not saying I didn't like it how it was before). I am of course fully open to discussing any of the changes or concerns anyone would have. Of course in the end, we all want what is best for page.
Fortunately the steps are being taken to make sure things are put back in order. I will say for everyone, brkmnly & DoritoBreath have both done a lot of the math when it comes to understanding frames; far beyond what I currently know. All the new implementations done during the overhaul were discussed at length in a group Discord in the weeks & months since I was added as a mod and the original forum post about needing the overhaul was made. One thing that we obviously failed to discuss was grandfathering old runs in, because it just makes the most sense to include those runs. Since brkmnly was added we should have also made sure to post in the forum (though that was planned, i promise you). Again, I was taking too long in working on the updates and felt the need to have things finished much quicker.
We'll get it fixed and make it right again, then we can celebrate with a Popeye race. What is everyone doing at the end of December after the holidays?
I'm relieved to hear that it'll be easy to add all the rejected runs back. As I mentioned above, I think a fantastic job has been done with the board otherwise.
DoritoBreath: I don't have any new messages from you. Did you DM me on another site?
Yes, totally agree. This oversight sadly led to problems. I was not expecting for the overhaul to go 100% flawlessly, and glad that these problems can be fixed with relative ease. I can see now that we should have been more open about the overhaul, the one thread didn't provide much info on the changes/when they would happen. We can only learn from these mistakes. Remember, the overhaul is still a work in progress and is most definitely not set in stone. Also should be seeing changes to theme/background very soon; to give the page a more visually appealing aesthetic.
Also count me in for any Popeye Race, I'll make sure my schedule is free!
Or are you referring to the ones you sent previously? I didn't want to just add a bunch of new Mods at once, do you think brkmnly isn't enough? Because I think the job he's done has been pretty thorough.
Yes, I was referring to the ones previously sent. I mainly wanted mod so I could help with the overhaul especially since it would make it easier for me to create a unique theme/background for the page. Plus I just really like Popeye and will remain active. Was not sure if the messages I sent came through on your end since it was around the time of site update. Glad they went through!
This morning I made an amendment in the game rules concerning the use of FCEUX. It is under review and not currently banned; unless another mod can affirm that there are known versions that SHOULD currently be banned this will include all versions, so this rule is likely going to change once or more until a solid decision is made as we learn about how these things work. We will do our best to achieve this goal as soon as we can and to the best of our abilities. Until then, please continue to enjoy this wonderful game!
