Pac-Man World 2 Forum  /  Potential Changes to Leaderboards *PLEASE READ* (Locked)
  RSRRSR

Unfortunately, PMW2's increasing popularity also causes an increase in peoples desire to cheat or submit false runs. The current system (allowing times above 50:00 without video) is incredibly lenient, and I think that while this system was fine back when it was just a google doc that C13 and I ran 4 years ago, in the current speedrunning world with easy to use capture cards, webcams, streaming/recording services, etc. there really isn't any reason that this should still be in place.

Since this is a speedrunning community and not a dictatorship (depending on who you ask) I think this should be open for public debate and put to a vote to see what the community in general feels is best for this leaderboard.

Pros:
Increased legitimacy for the leaderboard. (If a time is on here, it means more than just typing something into sr.c without any verification)
MUCH lower chance of cheated runs appearing.
Better for people checking out the game to have videos of many skill levels instead of only elite times. (for learning easier strats and stuff, its what I did for OoT)

Cons:
Current times without a video would have to be removed.

I plan on leaving this open for a week and then tallying up the votes to see what the community in general feels is best.

If you support making all times require a video, post "rules should be changed"
If you support keeping the current system, post "keep current system"

If you change your mind for whatever reason, just edit your post. I won't tally them until a week from now, so there shouldn't be any issues with that.

Please ONLY POST if you actually run the game.

EDIT: A misunderstanding has arisen for whatever reason, if the rules change dylans time would be removed as well.

jdog653jdog653, AverageTreyAverageTrey and 2 others like this. 
  RSRRSR

rules should be changed

 
  ahbeefahbeef

wording that one, change the rules

 
  plpplp

If people really cared THAT much about their time being removed, they would just get a new PB on video.

PLUS literally about 95% of people have some sort of phone/other kind of camera that can record (point it at the TV for the runs). No reason to have no video unless you dont have any phone made past 2005.

Rules should be changed.

WinslinatorWinslinator likes this. 
  [user deleted]

Rules should be changed, video evidence for leaderboards is crucial if more people are to pick the game up.

ahbeefahbeef and WinslinatorWinslinator like this. 
  WinslinatorWinslinator

rules should be changed
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."
-Christopher Hitchens

SyluxRunsSyluxRuns and ahbeefahbeef like this. 
  FingerQuickFingerQuick

Rules should be changed, however I do think that the time limit could be raised to still allow some people to post times without video (for example, raise the time to under 1 hour instead of under 50 minutes).

Or make it so the top 10 times MUST have a video.

But if both options aren't possible, then yeah video evidence is the way to go.

xsacred_xsacred_ and robthegamer115robthegamer115 like this. 
  lozplyr89lozplyr89

Yea, rules should be changed

 
  robthegamer115robthegamer115

I started doing speedruns when i was nine, as a joke. However, I never really started doing speedruns until I got my capture card. I am, and always will be a firm believer that requiring videos will stop potential runners of the category.

keep current system

Skylar29Skylar29 likes this. 
  [user deleted]

I agree that rules should be changed.

I've seen some random runs pop up here and there that have no video and I think "Is that legit for a first run?"

Now my question is, would ALL runs without video be removed? It would certainly clean up the leaderboards, but it would require a handful of people to redo a run and record it.

 
  xsacred_xsacred_

Yes change them

 
  LaurieDBunnykinsLaurieDBunnykins

I disagree completely.

Not only about the runs being required video, but with the run removal. When the "Sub 50 requires video" rule was added, you let Dylan's time stay on because "His run was done before the rule was created." So... Why are our runs being removed? We did this before the new rule. So, unless you're going to remove Dylan's run, no. On second thought, this whole thing is just stupid. This rule is just really stupid, and it shouldn't be changed.

Cyberdemon531Cyberdemon531 likes this. 
  AverageTreyAverageTrey

Change it fam, or at least make it more like any time sub 1 without video should not be allowed

 
  RSRRSR

@jellobeaver dylans time would be removed as well. Not sure where you got the idea it would be staying

 
  LaurieDBunnykinsLaurieDBunnykins

Sorry, I got that idea from the rules that should actually stay

 
  Cyberdemon531Cyberdemon531

Rules should be changed, but do not remove any times from the leaderboard. They were submitted during a time where the rules were different, and should be grandfathered in. Obviously video evidence is a must at this point, but to delete older runs just because they submitted in the past is quite outrageous, and simply an objectively awful decision.

MilkMilk likes this. 
  RSRRSR

@Rallis

I personally think the burden of the proof lies on the runner. For example, if I claimed that I had gotten a 43:20 in PMW2 but didn't provide a video, how are you supposed to disprove it so that it can be removed when I haven't provided any evidence?

"people with runs thgat haven't been proven illegitimate are gonna be removed"
Keep in mind that they haven't been proven legitimate either. There is no possible way to prove something is illegitimate if there is no evidence towards it being legitimate in the first place.

Not saying that all runs without video are illegitimate, I just don't believe that the point "runs that haven't been proven as illegitimate would be removed" is very persuasive when those same runs have never been proven as legitimate in the first place.

I see what you're trying to say but I don't think it really holds much sway as an argument.

Thanks for posting your opinion/thoughts/vote either way.

Ruse

WinslinatorWinslinator likes this. 
  HyperSonic7701HyperSonic7701

Change the rules.

It doesn't actually matter to me very much either way (since no matter what I'd want to improve by a significant amount in terms of my own run), but it's probably better moving forward.

 
  SyluxRunsSyluxRuns

I agree (i know, big surprise) it will push me to prove myself as a runner... i'm mostly going to be doing NTSC now for any% and maybe hundo on JP, so those will be livestreamed or recorded when attempted

 
  Joester98Joester98

I do believe that video proof should be required for a run to be verified, regardless of how fast/slow it is and where it falls amongst other times. I feel that it is not too much to ask of a person to record their gameplay, whether it be via a capture card, webcam, cell phone camera, etc. However, I think the times already present on the leaderboards without videos should stay. By virtue of being on the leaderboards in the first place, one or more of the mods decided/agreed that these runs were legitimate and deserved a place on the leaderboards. If they were believed to be not legit, they would never have made it there in the first place. By deciding to remove them, you are saying that you no longer believe any of the runs without video are legitimate, which I think is unfair to those people. While I do believe that removing the non-video runs would motivate those affected who truly care to improve their runs and have video evidence to show for it, I think those runs should stay. Those who care enough about their times/runs will want to improve them and prove that they did so regardless.

MilkMilk, lozplyr89lozplyr89 and 2 others like this. 
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