The problem with "Unlock all characters"
7 years ago
Kent, England

I looked up the success criteria of unlocking the characters, and to unlock Mewtwo in Melee, you have a play for 20 hours in vs mode. So, I ask this to the admins: If one of us runs unlock all characters, how should we get Mewtwo?

one way of doing it that would make it "faster" is have 4 controllers plugged in, leave it for 5 hours in a versus match with 4 players then win the match.

Kent, England

That's a good idea I'll do that if that's the quickest way. Also, Jigglypuff, Toon Link and Wolf from Brawl share a similar problem. They all require you to beat the story mode first.

He/Him, They/Them
7 years ago

It should be faster to do the 700vs matches for unlocking all the characters

Kent, England

But the rules say "Doing x number of versus matches is banned (example: instead of doing 120 vs matches for Jigglypuff in Smash 4, you have to Collect at least 30 different equipment items)"

Kent, England

Any ideas? If I can't do the matches, what should I do to get Jigglypuff, Toon Link and Wolf?

Kent, England

How do I do it if I can't play the matches?

He/Him, They/Them
7 years ago

your right I forgot that the rulings in these categories are arbitrary with the purpose of retaining "fun play". This is why when I create categories I advocate for non-arbitrary rulings when practicable including this specific category where I wanted no restrictions on unlocking all the chars in one session. I think subspace is your only option there. Have fun navigating the rules and good luck

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Kent, England

If you find any other problems with this category, let us know.

When someone told me about this category, I suggested starting the run by starting the 5 hour long melee vs match (to unlock Mewtwo in melee), then do all the other games, then come back and finish melee at the end. Using this method, when you come back to melee, Mewtwo's requirements are met (unless you somehow manage to unlock everything in less than 5 hours).

The rules say nothing about having to unlock all the characters in the 3DS version of the game, so I assume you only have to unlock all characters in the console versions. If that's the case, then the Jigglypuff unlock requirement example in the rules and also listed above is not required, as it is a 3ds unlock requirement (Jigglypuff is unlocked from the start on the Wii U version).

For my recommended strats on unlocking all characters for each game:

Melee (part 1):

Start a 1 stock vs match, items off, with 4 different characters, on a safe stage with no hazards (e.g. Yoshi's Story). Make sure one of these characters is a character you want to use to unlock Mewtwo. Keep in mind that you will be using two characters to unlock characters in vs mode (Marth being the second), so save another character for that point as well. Once you start the match, move on to completing all the other games.

After that, the other 3 games can be done in any order. I listed them in the order they were released, but the order of completion really doesn't matter.

Smash 64:

I would recommend trying to unlock Ness first (Normal, 3 stock, no continue). That way, if you fail it (e.g. game overing), you can finish that run and unlock Falcon or Jigglypuff, and try again. I would also recommend doing the Break the Targets as you go in the 1p mode so you don't have to do it later for Luigi (unless you repeat a character, then only do it the first time). I'd save Luigi for last so that you do some of the BtT during the 1p mode (saves about 30 seconds overall, very rough estimate).


As far as routing goes, without versus matches, you would have to complete Subspace Emissary to unlock all characters, as "complete Subspace Emissary" is a requirement to unlock some characters. As you're going through Kirby's solo Subspace section, make sure you pick up Link and Zelda, as that unlocks Ganondorf. After completing Subspace, you'll be left with Jigglylpuff, Toon Link, and Wolf. You can either return to Subspace or do their alternate requirement method (I'm not sure how far into the stage they get unlock in Subspace, so I'm not sure which is fastest).

Smash Wii U:

I would recommend doing All-Star on Normal first (unlock Dark Pit), since every character you unlock adds another character to the all-star run. I would also recommend doing Crazy Orders last (unlock ROB), as you may earn Crazy Order tickets and gold along the way, giving you more attempts at meeting his requirements. Otherwise, the order in which you complete all the unlock requirements is more or less up to you. Again, like in Smash 64, when doing the Classic mode unlocks, I would recommend doing the higher level requirement first, as if you Game Over, it will still qualify for the lower requirements. Another thing to consider is that since Game Overing makes your difficulty go down by 0.5, if you are worried about game overing, you can do the 5 classic modes on difficulty 2.5, giving you a one Game Over buffer in case something goes wrong.

Melee (part 2), splitting up into paragraphs due to complexity:

When you come back to melee, just sd on 3 characters, making the character you want to have face Mewtwo win the game. Then just unlock Mewtwo. While still in versus mode, you can unlock Marth by playing a vs mode with each of the original 14 characters, so just play 2 more 4 person vs mode matches, and a final 2 person match to get all 14, making the winner of the last one the one you use to face Marth.

I would recommend saving the event match requirements for "last" (Ganondorf and Pichu), as Pichu's event requires several characters to be unlocked. I would also recommend completing any Break the Targets you end up doing in classic modes along the way, as all Break the Targets will be the fastest method for Game & Watch.

Aside from that, again, the order you complete the other modes is entirely up to you. I would recommend that any "Adventure or Classic" mode requirements be done in Classic, as Classic is much faster than Adventure, and you need to complete 10 Classic runs to unlock Young Link anyways. Aside from that, whether you start with Classic (Jigglypuff, Dr. Mario, Young Link, Roy), Adventure (Luigi), or 100 man melee (Falco), is entirely up to you (if a character in one mode is a character you'd prefer to use in another, e.g. Jigglypuff in Adventure, then you can do Classic before Adventure).

Once every character aside from Mr. Game & Watch is unlocked, complete the Break the Targets with all remaining characters (i.e. characters you didn't complete classic mode with). Then you unlock Mr. Game & Watch, and finish the run.

Hopefully these strats help for anyone trying to route out this category. It looks like a fun category :p

Edited by the author 7 years ago

I realized I should probably split my post in two, so here's the second half:

There are a couple of questions I have on the rules that I think should be clarified in the rules section:

  1. Should "customization" be allowed? This includes Subspace Emissary and everything smash Wii U.

  2. Can someone play more than one game at once? We are already doing this with melee by default, but what I mean is, for example, play a stage of Subspace, then during the screen transitions, play a stage of Wii U classic, and alternate back and forth. Another alternative method is literally playing two games at once (e.g. playing through Subspace Emissary normally, while unlocking smash 64 with your feet).


Personally, I think that customizations should be banned in all games (default characters only). Especially considering the fact that everyone is starting from a new save file, this means that everyone will get different customization items. That said, no customizations allowed has not always been the popular decision (I've seen customization allowed runs several times for smash 3ds and Wii U). So that may be something that should be discussed.


I'm also on the fence about multiple games at once. One argument would be that this would be a massive disadvantage for people who use multiple games on the same console (e.g. Smash 64 on Virtual Console, or Melee on Wii, or Brawl on Wii U). However, in this run, melee runs throughout the whole time, and brawl on the Wii U means no gamecube controller, meaning brawl will be played on the Wii (unless a different control method is used, which would be a very small minority). So the only realistic instance of multiple games on the same console would be the Virtual Console version of smash 64. But at that point, you've got three versions on two consoles, so you can easily do two versions at once regardless. So imo, that argument isn't one that I find overly impactful.

What is causing me to be on the fence about this is that it would be very hard for some people to stream two games at once. First, most people only have one capture card. Second, some people's computers may not be able to handle streaming two "video" sources at once (whether it be from two capture cards, or one capture card and a webcam pointed to a tv screen). So my reasons for being on the fence is not really about "fairness" in the run, it's more on the ability for all runners to be able to even stream it properly. If it would be considered impossible for some runners to stream two games at once, then it should be banned.

Personally, I think it would be really funny seeing someone literally try to play two (or 3 Kappa ) games at once. I'd probably even try to do that myself if I were to run this and it were allowed (and I found a way to stream 2 games at once). If it is considered impossible, maybe it could be considered a separate category (or even considered a "meme" category).

InprisonedShadow likes this
Texas, USA

I have to agree with pikashy. I too am on the fence concerning streaming. I do recall however a video by SadisticMystic on YouTube with four feeds, all of which were on four different Pokémon Stadium 2 files who registered four different "two-Pokémon" teams to Little Cup R2 in a race to see which one got the championship trophy the fastest. But the feeds were relatively low quality compared to today (this was way before came into being and twitch streaming became a thing). I think it might even be possible to take this method of multi-streaming like in that video to the next level.

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