Mario Superstar Baseball Forum  /  Community Guidelines/Categories/Etc.
  Hong-ZhiHong-Zhi

The Mario Superstar Baseball speedrunning community has always been small and as such, has had obtuse, ill-defined rules, but I feel like with the influx of new runners we need to make things more clear for anyone who wishes to try their hand at this game.

Firstly, star characters. There has never, to my knowledge been a ruling against the usage of superstar characters. With the faster ball speeds (both pitching and hitting) and better stats of superstar characters, you could easily save 30 seconds per game using them, plus they'd make runs much more consistent. The question is should they be banned, and if so, should their usage be its own seperate category?

Second, Japanese runners recently discovered a glitch allowing you to play someone else's team as a different captain. The most obvious use for this would be to put Wario's team on Yoshi as it makes mapping faster. Should this glitch be banned, and if so, should Any% Glitched be its own category?

Lastly, All Characters. While the category might have served some purpose back when mercying all AIs in one run could be considered an achievement, this category has become completely meaningless at this point. On all difficulties, its fastest to 1-IM all enemy teams anyway so you end up recruiting everyone regardless. At best, the category should be demoted to a side category (similar to Bowser%), but in my opinion, the category should be done away with in its entirety.

Let me know you guys' thoughts.

MattyIceFalcoMattyIceFalco likes this. 
  MattyIceFalcoMattyIceFalco

Thank you for creating this thread/discussion Hong-Zhi

First point:
Star characters should be completely banned at the start of a run. The fact that there is no official ruling on this is a complete oversight. Because star characters completely change the usefulness of a character. IMO there could be a category like Hong-Zhi already said, where all star characters can be unlocked on a challenge mode save file, and this could be called "Star Characters Any%".

Second point: This glitch should 100% be allowed. A lot of other games allow glitches in their speed runs, I don't see why this game would be any different. This glitch would not only make runs more unique, but it would also evolve the game, and optimize times even faster. Since it's a glitch that can be done in the game, on any version of the game, and doesn't need the use of outside elements to perform the glitch. Then this glitch should 100% be allowed.

Third point: I think All Characters should still be it's own category. At this point After three or so years of this game's active speedrunning community I have finally optimized that 1 Inning Mercy is the fastest strat for Any%. But there are times where a runner on a more casual level could still be on pace for a new PB, and they may want to do a safe strat of doing a regular 1 run 3 inning game. Same thing goes for someone going for a new PB specifically on All characters, maybe they can't get 1 inning mercy every time and they have to use more innings.

 
  MattyIceFalcoMattyIceFalco

Here are my proposed rules for Any%, All Characters, Superstar%, and Bowser%

This is what I think the rules should be:

Any%
All runs must start on a fresh save file where a previous challenge mode run has not been completed.
Timer starts at the selection of a captain, and timer ends on the final out of the final game.
Glitches are allowed. (The Captain glitch to play as a specific captain utilizing another captain's team)

Superstar%
All runs must start on a fresh save file where a previous challenge mode run has not been completed.
Timer starts at the selection of a captain, and timer ends on the final out of the final game.
Glitches are allowed. (The Captain glitch to play as a specific captain utilizing another captain's team)
All star missions must be completed for that specific team.

All Characters%
All runs must start on a fresh save file where a previous challenge mode run has not been completed.
Timer starts at the selection of a captain, and timer ends on the final out of the final game.
Glitches are allowed. (The Captain glitch to play as a specific captain utilizing another captain's team)
All characters (excluding Bowser team characters) must be recruited upon completion of the final game.

Bowser%
All runs must start on a fresh save file where a previous challenge mode run has not been completed.
Timer starts at the selection of a captain, and timer ends on the final out of the final game.
Glitches are allowed. (The Captain glitch to play as a specific captain utilizing another captain's team)
Must use Bowser as captain

Bowser% All Characters
All runs must start on a fresh save file where a previous challenge mode run has not been completed.
Timer starts at the selection of a captain, and timer ends on the final out of the final game.
Glitches are allowed. (The Captain glitch to play as a specific captain utilizing another captain's team)
All characters (excluding the Captain characters) must be recruited.

 
  YourGenderHereYourGenderHere

First, I agree with MattyIceFalco that clean Challenge Mode save files should be the standard for runs in every current category. If there's demand for a category that allows New Game+ save files, that should be its own thing.

Second, I see the value in an All Characters distinction regardless of what the strats are for any%, although for the sake of avoiding clutter shifting it from a separate category to a column like the one for captain choice is IMO a good idea.

Third, I want to voice my opinion that Team Swap should not be allowed for Superstar% runs by default, and I think even a column for it would be a problem. Unlike any%, Superstar% categories are based pretty much entirely on which captain you choose at file select. Giving your starting captain an entire free team's worth of recruits changes the logistics of the category too much relative to the focus of the category, which is a lot more than 'clear challenge mode'. This is especially true for Peach's Superstar%, which must recruit every other character, so the glitch would allow you to skip recruitment for one team, and that's huge. I have no strong opinion about Team Swap for any% and All Characters. Probably that's fine.

Fourth, it's worth pointing out that in addition to more columns we can also add Category Extensions, essentially a separate leaderboard for more obscure/niche runs. Any% with Superstars/Any% New Game+ and Glitched Superstar% would belong there IMO.

Fifth, and this is a very minor thing, I find it tacky to use the percent symbol for categories in games that don't have a percentage counter embedded in them. There's always more precise wording to describe the goal of the category, and precision is helpful for making the game accessible just a bit. "But any% is part of speedrun culture" is a justification for using the percentage sign, not an actual reason TO use it.

My suggested arrangement:

- Main Categories -

Clear Challenge Mode (Team Swap and any other future glitches that are discovered allowed)
Subcategories: Mushroom, Flower, Star, Special
Columns: Captain choice, All Recruitable Characters, Platform

Glitchless Clear Challenge Mode (no Team Swap or significant future glitches allowed)
Subcategories: Mushroom, Flower, Star, Special
Columns: Captain choice, All Recruitable Characters, Platform

Clear Challenge Mode as Bowser
Subcategories: Mushroom, Flower, Star, Special
Columns: All Recruitable Characters, Glitched/Glitchless, Platform

Obtain All Superstars (in the rules it's explained that no major glitches are allowed)
Subcategories: Mario Sunshines, Peach Monarchs, Yoshi Islanders, Wario Greats, DK Kongs, Bowser Monsters, All Characters
Columns: Platform

- Category Extensions -

Clear Challenge Mode, New Game+ (Superstarred characters allowed)
Subcategories: Mushroom, Flower, Star, Special
Columns: All Recruitable Characters, Glitched/Glitchless, Platform

Glitched Obtain All Superstars
Subcategories: Mario Sunshines, Peach Monarchs, Yoshi Islanders, Wario Greats, DK Kongs, Bowser Monsters, All Characters
Columns: Platform

 
  mdmason85mdmason85

Sorry for the delayed response, but I've finally been able to sit down and look at the new glitch and direction of these categories. I think this new glitch is perfectly fine in any%, and appears to save significant time, so it will be allowed with it's own column on the boards, and you can filter out if you want to see glitchless times. For the all characters run, the team swap glitch takes away an entire team's worth of characters, and so I think it's in the best interest of the theme of the category that the glitch be banned. Same with superstar%, as unlocking characters is a major routing point in some of the runs, especially all superstars, so it is banned there. The glitch is also banned in Bowser% for the time being. If runs are done with the glitch that demonstrate the need for a new category or subcategory, it can be added as needed. I had the thought of an "all unlockables" category, starting with a new memory card and unlocking all characters, minigames, and modes. No category will be added until runs are done or serious interest is put out (as was with superstar%)

 
  RubberDuckyAssassinRubberDuckyAssassin

Hey Gamers! I think this is a good forum to make a little announcement about an update to the rules, I decided to give the categories more strict ruling on having video proof, it only affected 3 runs, so if it did affect your run, and need help getting a way to record your runs, reach out and ask! There are many ways to video record runs.