Hind time save rule clarification
4 months ago

Hi, it’s me with a quick thread to sort out an open question we as mods of MGS1 failed to clarify in the rules. In another - no deleted thread - we talked already about the timesave iLL_Pazzo found for the hind fight.

See here:

How to perform it:

  • Take the Stinger ammo box before the Hind ladder
  • Take the ladder and start the Hind fight
  • Kill the Hind WITHOUT (very important) using GME
  • When the Hind reached 0 health, just suicide
  • Take the ladder again and leave the roof
  • Go down the stairs and go to Wolf2 using GME2
  • Congratulation, you just saved 25 to 30 seconds (depending on how fast you suicide) on every category without even using GME or area reload

As far I as I understood, this was fine for runs to be done, hence why I added the video and how to the wiki for the all bosses route. Today we had new discussions regarding this topic that this strategy should be not allowed.

So, hopefully for a final time - let’s decide if it should be explicitly banned in the rules of the all bosses category (and glitchless of course as well).

My understanding was, this trick meets the rules as they stand today, deplete the bosses health bar. Even if the game thinks we didn’t finish the boss fight.

At the end we should have it cleared up and added to the rules then for a yes or no decision.

Ontario, Canada

No, you dont beat the boss.

United States

Although I dont run it as often recently, I dont see anything wrong with this strat.

Any% climbs up and back down the ladder, no fight (on console)

Obviously cant do this for Big Boss rank, so I'd say have at it 👍

young_sn0w likes this
Sardinia, Italy

A ) Ban both Wolf2's trick, any Hind trick and Ocelot/Baker Game Over abuse to leave before the actual Rank Up animation.

If not

B ) Leave Wolf2's trick like it is, ban Game Over abuse on Hind and Ocelot/Baker but allow this trick:

If not

C ) Keep Wolf2's trick, allow Hind's trick and Game Over abuse and also Ocelot/Baker Game Over abuse

Reason: Just stop cheating :DDD

EDIT: Ocelot/Baker Game Over abuse just does not work because the laser room doesn't load until Ocelot is defeated for real, so there is no load zone to the Canyon

Edited by the author 4 months ago

Since you don't trigger the death cutscene the game doesn't consider it as defeated so it may not be against the rule per say but i still don't think it should be allowed.

Berlin, Germany

should not be allowed, after death you are still able to fight the Hind. You could also die on accident there and you will need to fight again, its the same with ocelot after he has 0hp you can still trigger the game over screen by touching the wires and simply need to restart.

Ohio, USA

Results from the deleted thread about this topic, thanks wayback machine, folks are of course allowed to change the vote listed but just to keep this accurate, this was discussed before. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227010328603394049/1128375552772948138/2023-07-11_13_21_15-New_skip_clarification_of_the_rulesvote_-_Forum_-_Metal_Gear_Solid_-_speedrun..png

Edited by the author 4 months ago
Hau5test likes this

Thanks Glenn

Languedoc-Roussillon, France

I thought this topic was closed. But I'm glad it's back, because all I wanted at the moment was a clarification of the rules, because rn it's too vague. First of all it's only possible on Wolf2 and Hind on AB and we already do it on Wolf2. That's why I think it needs to be clarified in the rules. I only see 3 possibilities with this :

1- A boss should have its lifebar depleted to 0 and it should be considered as defeated by the game before you trigger the next boss fight (meaning Explosion Skip not allowed but Wolf2 shuffle allowed as it is right now)

2- The upgrade animation has to be played after each boss is defeated (meaning both are not allowed)

3- You only have to deplete boss's lifebar to 0 to defeat it on AB (meaning both are allowed)

I'd personally vote for 1, so the rules are the same than it is now but it's clarified into the rules that when you trigger a boss fight then the previous one has to be considered as defeated. It's just for rules purpose, cause currently it's too vague imo.

Keep in mind that this is Not possible (so far) on Ocelot, Mantis, Ninja, Raven etc. It's only possible on Wolf2 and Hind because of GME/shuffle and that's why I'm concerned.

Edited by the author 4 months ago
Hau5test and repeatzzzzz like this

yeah clear rules of yes and no to both things is what we want now :)

Seattle, WA, USA

Go down the stairs and go to Wolf2 using GME2

Can you do this on console, without GME2? Does depleting the Hind's HP to 0 mean the game triggers the next fight - which would be the four horsemen in the elevator, if I'm not mistaken?

If that's how it works then I'm all for it. But if it's required to use GME and you can't do it on console, then I'd say no.

Berlin, Germany

@young_sn0w There is no Tower B skip on Console for All Bosses.

On Any% there is but you need to use Weapons Glitch to delete the Stinger, then go up to Hind, leave the fight and do the box drop to proceed to Wolf 2.

But this is not possible on All Bosses since you dont delete the Stinger and after death abuse you cant do the box drop because the boxes are out of the way and you cant trigger the elevator fight since the game considers Hind as not defeated.

United States

No on the Hind trick.

"Defeated", in my opinion, means you can't fight the boss again, under any circumstances (including continues), after depleting their lifebar.

Edited by the author 4 months ago
Seattle, WA, USA

yeah, so the fact you can't do this on console, and the suicide doesn't trigger the next fight even with the continue, I've gotta vote no. Not a big fan of the Sniper Wolf skip either, but it is what it is, can't look back now to see how that was decided.

I'd have to vote no.


Sorry for taking my sweet time to not follow up here. I’ll make one last call after everyone has shared their thoughts and will close the discussion in 24 hours.

If not made clear, either say:

No to hind IGT time save

Yes to hind IGT time save

I don’t think we have to discuss wolf 2 rank up skip it’s already been done in runs and wasn’t controversial then and only comes up now in relation to the hind. But feel free to say yes or no to that if you want, maybe my feelings about that topic is off.

My personal vote on that hind trick is no.


Alright eveyone, let’s call it in.

I see the majority clearly being against this trick being allowed for all bosses (and glitchless anyway). So we‘ll update the rule on that regard and I’ll move pazzo‘s video from the wiki to the glitches section with a note that it isn’t allowed with the current ruleset.

iLL_Pazzo likes this
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