Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos Forum  /  Requesting opinions on introducing glitches
  kvkboneskvkbones

I have discovered many game breaking glitches in this game that can be abused to give an unfair advantage in runs, potentially cutting run times below 30 minutes. After seeing there are no rules set for making a run, should a list of rules be added and/or new categories be added to the leaderboard? Or does anyone believe that introducing glitches will ruin speedrunning for this game and I should just keep it to myself?
The glitches I have found start with killing up to 3 of the 4 guards at the start and selling their weapons to skip getting the compass, glitching any wand and healing item into equipment slots for infinite use, making keys and puzzle items appear in inventory bar when entering a new level, and finishing with Baccata killing Scotia in one hit with bare hands. All of these glitches are done in game, no outside modifications at all.
Last question: Should I make a tutorial on this?

djeezdjeez, logikerlogiker and 3 others like this. 
  misterprmillermisterprmiller
(edited: )

Break the game. Separate the categories if anyone takes issue. Any% and Any% NMG are common, but I for one cannot WAIT to see this.

Please oh please make this tutorial. 🙂

PLANETPLANET likes this. 
  PLANETPLANET

Absolutely, man. I'm really excited, since it sounds groundbreaking. I'm not sure if creating a new category would be in order - or rather incorporating these strategies into the any% category - but that's a matter of comparison. It's really a great find so yes, please, share this information. Especially given what a gem this game is, every bit of information counts : O I've harassed this game thouroughly (or it seemed!) in various ways, both normally and using the Scotia editor, but never bumped into such good stuff. Congratulations on those finds!
And yes, I'm all in for the tutorial too. Thank you in advance! : )

misterprmillermisterprmiller likes this. 
  misterprmillermisterprmiller

Aw... please come back and confirm this video and run will happen on video! 😮

 
  jenxjenx
(edited: )

So apparently the site has been recently rolled back a couple of days (see https://www.speedrun.com/The_Site/thread/jhqq4 ). (Excellent timing, too, just when the LoL page comes back to life after months of being dormant. xD)

Anyway, this means that newer forum posts after PLANET's last one above are gone, as are the changes I made to the leaderboard. The latter, at least, is easy to fix - I'll reorganize the categories again in a bit.

As for the awesome finds described in the original post, kvkbones's channel has some cool live examples: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpBOoKJ7UGWfVBqUPH4RR2w @kvkbones Any update? 🙂

djeezdjeez and misterprmillermisterprmiller like this. 
  PLANETPLANET

Hey @kvkbones, hoping that you'll come back : )

Also, it would be really great if you could make further videos on the things you've mentioned. I think I can speak for all of us that we would be really grateful

misterprmillermisterprmiller and jenxjenx like this. 
  misterprmillermisterprmiller

Geez it just gets nuttier. I figured the Fireball wand in the weapon hand would work, but I didn't suspect that it would lead to a Fireball wand that can be used infinitely! That right there is the end of the game.

I also played around with this and discovered the infinite Might side of things, but didn't think about Baccata underflowing his Might. Could we underflow Kieran's Might as well by duping/equipping a dagger, selling the dagger, buying a Long Sword, removing said Long Sword? For whatever reason, when I left an area, the underflow damage disappeared from the main character. 😕

 
  misterprmillermisterprmiller

While I'm at it, if you're not already, I check the ScummVM bug-tracking forums for glitches in the Quest for Glory series. ScummVM does run Lands of Lore, so they track bugs for this one, also.

https://bugs.scummvm.org/

 
  kvkboneskvkbones

@mrprmiller, Might is calculated differently for each champion but they share a common problem, pushing the numbers into negative values causes the game to try counting down to a number that cannot exist and causing an infinite loop(ScummVM can reach that number since it does exist? or calculates it differently?). Baccata and other characters are different and can reach negative values. From the testing I have done it seems these glitches are not about negative values but applied(and removed) weapon status. For example, in the sequence I used to glitch Baccata, if I skipped the step of applying two daggers and removing two longswords then the orcs outside the Draracle's cave would not take any damage from Baccata.

 
  kvkboneskvkbones

Part 5 Uploaded:

Breaking Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos - Part 5 (Skipping through the mines)

Finally a skip through the part of the game that (almost) everyone hates! Create 3 illegal items before dropping through to get the keys, using the other key from the niche creates another illegal item which turns into a bloodstone, go straight to Paulson and you're done! At the end of the video you see another use for the border glitch, catching an arrow. It becomes an illegal item, which transforms into another Vaelan's Cube as you enter Yvel Woods.

djeezdjeez likes this. 
  kvkboneskvkbones

Part 6 and Part 6b Uploaded:

Part 6:

Had a little trouble with putting this together, lost track of the item table and discovered I had just enough items in place only after sacrificing both Kieran's and Baccata's healing items(easily replaced with Sadie's healing salves later). Fighting with the RNG in this part was the problem: the areas loaded sometimes added extra great swords(dropped by wraiths) which pushed ahead the items I was trying to glitch into inventory.

Part 6b:

Short little clip on how to catch and permanently glitch in one of the projectiles used by the Wraiths of the White Tower. If you leave the level while a projectile is still traveling through the air(after catching one), it stays as an existing item since it is locked in stasis in the level above.

djeezdjeez and logikerlogiker like this. 
  kvkboneskvkbones

Part 7 uploaded:

So after getting healing items back onto everyone shield hand, I decided to get Paulson in on the fun before going into the big battle.
At the end of the battle I couldn't help but think it was less like a fight and more like popping bubble wrap...

djeezdjeez likes this. 
  kvkboneskvkbones

Part 8 uploaded (one more to go):

In the previous videos, I created 'Illegal items' to make items appear directly in the inventory bar after loading a new area. This same technique can also be used when the game creates enemies that hold key items, like the Xeob Key and the last Vaelan's Cube. Creating two 'Illegal items' before choosing to attack the Xeobs will turn them into copies of the key and cube that they carry, allowing you to skip fighting them and run to the stairs going up. Creating three more 'Illegal items' before climbing the stairs will turn them into the Cobra figurine, Dragon figurine, and a small key. Another thing some people may have noticed is that I left behind the lockpicks needed to open the door to get the Unicorn figurine on the second floor. I will be using the same method to get the last two figurines and all the keys in the last video.

djeezdjeez, jenxjenx and 2 others like this. 
  kvkboneskvkbones
(edited: )

Part 9 uploaded:

Creating 5 'Illegal items' before going to the second and the third floor to get the last 2 figurines and all the keys. The very important thing to notice is copying the Noir key before using it, not doing this could cause one of the needed keys or the last figurine to not appear in the inventory bar.
Baccata's one hit with his bare hands is all that is needed to finish Scotia off quickly (ignoring Kieran's little 7 damage hit, since Baccata is dealing up to 30000 damage anyway)

Even though this is the last video, there are a few points to take note of as I finish this last post here:
1. Kieran is really the only choice for using these glitches, it does not really work as well with the others (if it works at all).
2. This has been a fairly recent discovery, there may be more uses than what you have seen in these videos.
3. These glitches have only been tested using the version from GOG.com. Older versions, such as the original unpatched floppy version, may give different or unexpected results.
4. These videos are just a demonstration of the glitches that I have found so far. Some time in the future I hope to make an organized, detailed tutorial in the guides section using these videos as a reference.
Edit1: With wimpy monsters set, Ak'shel has the lowest chance to hit the guards with underflow damage and the others have a better chance to hit them. All my tests were done using ferocious monsters set and only using the sequence of copy dagger, equip and sell other dagger, buy mace then dagger, equip dagger. Djeez has done more work than I have on testing this which can be seen on his Twitch channel.

djeezdjeez and PLANETPLANET like this. 
  djeezdjeez
(edited: )

Hey everyone. I think we're all excited for the creation of a real any% category for this game! Glitchless was fun but we all knew the game was going to be busted eventually! Amazing stuff kvkbones! Considering the current Glitchless Wimpy record is at 35 minutes, dare I say that sub 20 minutes could be possible? Hard to say yet, but oh man those illegal items being replaced by floor items is a huge timesaver.

I'll be working on the rerouting on stream in the upcoming week (this will be the fourth time I reroute the game... and this is definitely the wildest changes in the history of the game), so if anyone wants to help, feel free to drop in. Because at the moment I just got done learning the glitches, my head is trying to process everything, and I sure could use the help.

Sorry for not being active here and not posting my runs. I have personnal issues with the administration/management of this site and I tend to not use it much. And I am also not a fan of the ''gold rush'' mentality of people trying to jump at moderator posts despite not even running the game, a problem that caused lots of issues in multiple speedrunning community in the past. Sorry logiker but it took you almost two years to accept that Normal difficulty 1:03 run (which has been improved by 10+ minutes since). Submitted in 2015, accepted in 2017. That was pretty bad considering I'm the only active runner of the game, and been for almost a decade now. Seems like you're finally revealing yourself in this thread, however.

Also, I wouldn't mind elaboration on the Kieran only thing. I tested with Conrad mostly and everything seemed to behave the same, except maybe underflowing the damage.

EDIT: since this is by far the most people interested in LoL1 speedrunning that I've seen gathered in one place, I'd like to take the opportunity to have everyone pitch in their opinion on the only ''rule'' me and Dumfawks had for speedrunning this game. Which is to play on DOSBox (now GoG version ideally) only. No CPU speedups, obviously. ScummVM being banned. Jenx also agreed to this when he started playing the game last fall.

I'm seeing mentions of ScummVM in the thread, so I figure now is the best time to have everyone pitch in opinions. For reference, ScummVM is essentially to this game what VC is to SM64; flat out faster. And there are some instances of things behaving slightly differently, like the cutscene pre-Roland Castle seems to be easier to skip on ScummVM somehow. There could be more for all I know, or none. But everyone so far has been playing on DOSBox.

It also warms my heart to see so many of you here.

 
  kvkboneskvkbones
(edited: )

@Djeez, I did make a mistake when I used the words 'only choice' when I should have used the words 'best choice'. The process of glitching Kieran's attack to kill the guards is quick and simple and has a higher success rate over the others. Conrad could end up spending 5 minutes due to a low chance of landing a hit on the guards, Ak'shel could take all day and not land a single hit (I don't think he can), and Michael can't be glitched the same way since it throws the game into an infinite loop trying to count down to a negative number he can't be set to (to get around this he needs to have his mace stolen by the lizards in southland, but this makes the orcs impossible to hit). Kieran's faster cooldown rate also means that he uses healing items glitched onto his shield hand quicker, and since might can be increased by equipping one of two copies of a weapon (like a halberd from the guards, forgot to mention this) then selling the other and removing the illegal item this makes him able to kill most things in one hit from a single attack due to his higher hit rate. Since his low attack power is no longer a factor, Kieran is the best choice to get through the game quickly compared to the others.
Edit1: need to retest with other difficulty levels, the results of my testing are on ferocious dificulty while attempting to kill the first guard with underflow.
(Edit2: using the sequence of copy dagger, equip and sell other dagger, buy mace then dagger, equip dagger.)
Here are the results I got:
Ak'shel - 0 hits out of 40
Michael - 0 hits out of 40
Kieran - 16 hits out of 40
Conrad - 2 hits out of 40

 
  djeezdjeez
(edited: )

So far I've been having success with Ak'shel and Conrad also to kill a guard in the beginning. Ak'shel may require a few tries but nothing crazy really.

I'm not sure if I agree that Kieran is necessarily the fastest choice, to be honest. I think there's something to be said about having enough mana to kill the Larkhon fast without having to spend time leveling your mage skill. Maybe on a Ferocious difficulty, which I notice is what most of your videos seem to be, but on WImpy, it's definitely not so clear. Lots of testing need to be done.

As far as healing items, I'm still on the fence about if is worth doing. The time investment to set it up may not be worth in a speedrun scenario. Not to mention the chances of just losing an item because you were moving an item around and attacked at the same time. Again, probably more worth on a Ferocious difficulty run.

The real question is, how do you get any consistency on the edge-replication glitch? The window is always different. Sometimes it just seems to flat out not work. It's not very difficult, but also not very consistent. Do you have any tips for it? It may not seem like a big deal, but in a single-segment run, when you can hardlock the game with a single extra mouse input, it can be spooky. I'm also sadly not so sure anymore about if sub-20 is possible, after now understanding the scope of how many illegal items are needed in total.

Will likely be going live in a few hours to keep figuring stuff out. The most frustrating thing about this re-routing is that last time, I had routed and practiced the inventory management... but now I'll have to do it again 🙁 hehe oh well

 
  kvkboneskvkbones
(edited: )

Finding the right spot to click can be tricky sometimes
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iWB1Sbv8753ktXhr8
try clicking near the top and bottom of the green boxes in this image

Here are the steps that I use:
1. Throw item to a wall with the item landing at the far end of the space ahead of you
2. Try to pick the item up using single clicks starting from the top of the green box mentioned above and trying other pixels below that until successful
3. With the item in the mouse cursor, at about the speed of a double click, throw and catch item just before it hits the wall.

 
  kvkboneskvkbones
(edited: )

@Djeez, another thing you are correct about is in most cases throwing two copies of an item together will cause the game to hardlock, not softlock, but there are some rare cases that you can press the escape key to access the main menu and reload a game. Another thing to point out is when you create two copies of an item, and use one while the other is on the floor instead of the inventory bar, the new illegal item on the floor is invisible and can be picked up. Or if you leave the invisible item on the floor and go to another level to load more items, you can go back to where you left the illegal item and a new item will be created in its place.

 
Latest News
View all
No news
Recent Threads
View all
Thread Author
Lands of Lore Wiki
Last post
SpymasterCosadesSpymasterCosades
4 replies
Requesting opinions on introducing glitches
Last post
kvkboneskvkbones
51 replies
More speedruns needed! :)
Last post
jenxjenx
10 replies
Opinion on skipping Timothy in Glitchless?
Last post
SirbruteSirbrute
3 replies
Challenge accepted
Last post
misterprmillermisterprmiller
0 replies
Moderators