ZorlaxSevenZorlaxSeven

I am not sure what the news is on this glitch, but seems like there will be many route changes regarding this new glitch that allows certain triggers to be hit with bombs. I personally do not know much about this glitch. As of writing, I have heard that we can skip all of the ocarina songs (and the ocarina).

However, I think this very clearly warrants a new category. The "main" category has seen a lot of change recently, but has, on the whole, remained similar with regards to route. We will be seeing a new dungeon order, skipping ~10 minutes of gameplay (in a run that is already 1:03), etc. Gameplay will never be the same way after this.

Personally, I think the best course of action would be for this glitch to be allowed in the S&Q category, as it already features deloading. This of course, would mean that the final boss text skip would not be allowed, but we can allow it on a retroactive basis. (Meaning, any run that used to have it is okay. Any run after a certain date that has it is not allowed. Similar how the Tal Tal Heights Out of Bounds was retroactively banned.)

Rationale:
Last time we added a new glitch (SuperJumps) we saw the death of LADX. A community of approximately 15+ runners became a community of ~3 runners (or less). While new glitches are fun, the amount of route changes that this game has endured in the last months has discouraged people from running. Now that the route has solidified, we are seeing an influx of newer runners, who will be again discouraged from running this game.

At this point in time S&Q has been a more "free" category that allows and encourages glitches, in the same style as Link's Awakening original. I think that a differentiation between these two categories will actually make both categories worth running in that they'll FINALLY BE DIFFERENT, while not adding to the oversaturation of categories. At this point, S&Q would be very different from Warpless, which would be still very different from Legacy. This split will allow for very differing routes that allow for further ways of mastering this game.

Discuss.

 
  RiddlerRiddler

trick breaks no rules
community likes trick
vote on trick
my vote is ffzOnlyTunic

 
  Savvas09cSavvas09c

Not that im much of the community and im a noobie but I agree with riddler and Flynn.

 
  CravoneCravone

Agreed, it breaks nothing. Tricks get found all the time, otherwise runs get boring without learning new stuff. No-one complained when this was used to skip final boss text, it's only because it takes a considerable time off the run. You don't have to do all of what this trick can achieve if you don't want. I won't be doing walrus skip because it's too risky, that's my choice as a runner, but I don't want it banned just because I don't feel like doing it.

 
  UlquiorraUlquiorra

I agree with Riddler.

 
  SurrealGuySurrealGuy

I agree, allow it.
Walrus skip is technically also allowed in the main category, why should this not be?
Sorry Zorlax ❤️
Btw who runs S&Q seriously?

 
  UlquiorraUlquiorra

I still run the main category, not as often as I used to but Im still working on improving my time.

 
  Warr90Warr90

I love the new bomb skips i'm not sure how many i'd actually use in a run as I have so much time i could save with the current route compared to the top tier runners.

I think the new skips will change the game a lot to be honest but as for a new category hmm I'm sitting on the fence with that.

It would be great to see LADX Main category less then a hour with a these new tricks but i'd also hate to see the whole game completed in less then a hour. With the game being such a short run but packed with all the glitches and tricks makes it an exciting run to watch and also play.

I don't even do rooster skip and that's been around for a long time but these new tricks will shave tens of minutes off runs.

 
  Warr90Warr90

But as a community we do always look for new tricks we can do to save time and move the game forward 🙂 This is a big game changer it will keep things fresh but there's a lot that has been found in such a short period of time.

I don't know what to post anymore haha

 
  CravoneCravone

For new runners, marin song skip is completely free, it's only frog song skip (because it forces rooster skip) and walrus skip (because of softlocks) that make it difficult for newer runners. But we still don't know the true extent of this yet.

 
  GreenTunicGreenTunic

Agree with Riddler. Doesn't break any rules and would be stupid to disallow something because it's not liked by some.

 
  DelnDeln

to me, if the trick would allow instruments skip, then the trick would be banned since it would just end up being another any%, which would be useless.

FlynnFlynn likes this. 
  oSeabassoSeabass

As far as I know it doesn't skip the need for the instruments, it just skips the need for Marin's Song to trigger that cutscene. Makes sense to allow this IMHO. Cool new glitch, lets the route change up which is fun re-routing. New people seem to be excited about it. I'm all for it. It isn't super busted like the other applications of SJ that we banned and consider OOB now.

I personally vote yes on it if we are putting it to a vote.

Also, no one runs S+Q now, so saying "this can be allowed in S+Q" is basically saying "eh we don't like this let's ignore it in the main category".

Runs evolve. Routes change. Things improve. No run is "perfect". Speedruns are always being improved and fixed and cleaned and a million other things. As someone who loves this game and "running" I enjoy seeing the game run to a high skill and with great ways to exploit some of the sloppy code GB coders used 🙂

I think it is silly to banish this trick to S+Q thus sweeping it under the rug. New tricks and improvements will always be found. Just because a trick is not something as easy as "hold left here" or "walk this specific line" doesn't mean it can't save time and should be utilized in a run.

 
  oSeabassoSeabass

Quoting Z's post: "Rationale:
Last time we added a new glitch (SuperJumps) we saw the death of LADX. A community of approximately 15+ runners became a community of ~3 runners (or less). While new glitches are fun, the amount of route changes that this game has endured in the last months has discouraged people from running. Now that the route has solidified, we are seeing an influx of newer runners, who will be again discouraged from running this game. "

=======================================
The community did not leave because of Super Jumps. The community left due to constant bickering and jockeying for position on a subject that only a few people held super passionate opinions. We used to do races every Sunday, those died out well before Super Jumps because of the time zone switch and moving them up to an earlier time.

People left because the community started turning itself inside out over the DISCUSSION of Super Jumps. Most people didn't give two cares either way, just as long as the topic got figured out and finalized. They didn't want to take time to learn new tricks and think of routes if in a week the SJs would be banned and all that work was for naught. In all fairness, a lot of people wanted to work on SJ stuff but got bored waiting for a verdict one way or another. I personally don't want that to happen with tricks in this game again.

There have been a ton of new runners I have seen in the past months since SJs have been used and found. I don't think something cool, easy, and neat to show off will discourage new runners. It is a simple trick they can use to improve. You don't have to try every trick every run. I know a lot of runners still get the rooster and skip the hookshot jump for it. I personally haven't learned all the new super jump boost strats. And that is ok. I (and others) will learn them when they want and at their own pace.

 
  CravoneCravone

I am going to be pretty blunt here, SJ's killed the community because they took an entire month to decide on what constitutes OoB, and whether SJs were OoB, a month where people were thinking "if I do an SJ run and it's not allowed, I wasted my time" or "if I dont do SJ, and it is allowed, I will have to do a run again."

But then again, we did redefine some of the rules for clearer clarity. This requires no clarity, it does no break any rules set out for this category, doesn't even come close to it. The vast majority of the run remains unchanged for now. This does not skip instruments like the doghouse or superswim does, it is not nearly as broken as the glitches which are banned in this category. I would say the most equivalent comparison this has is the despawning in LA. It seems broken at first, but honestly, I think these are overhyped. At the moment the only things they skip is walrus (let's be honest, everyone hated the previous walrus skip), frog song and the ruppee route, which if you think about it, how much time do you really lose for ruppees compared to skipping the signpost maze, and marin's song. Means you don't need to sit through a 30 second cutscene. None of these really break the game too much imo, you can't skip keys or instruments, because it triggers cutscenes, it does not skip checks inside the game to make sure you are at the correct status to activate those cutscenes.

 
  Warr90Warr90

Yeah I agree Cravone. To me the skip is just what we've always been looking for "early D8" and a better Walrus skip 😛 tbh I only think I'd do the early D8 as it'll make me learn Rooster Skip better.

 
  UlquiorraUlquiorra

I agree with Seabass and Cravone, if it takes another month to decide if the trick is accepted in no sqwwoob, I'm sure people will be bored once again. I know Im not the most active member of the community, due to language issues and work, but I love this game and everyone who runs it, and to me it would be silly to create tensions for nothing.

RiddlerRiddler likes this. 
  RiddlerRiddler

It seems that expedrimental runs of the new route have begun, and the majority of the community seems to be accepting of this trick.
It seems like this discussion is nearing a close ffzOnlyTunic ffzOctoRekt

 
  LeonPLeonP

This owns!!!

 
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