[quote=SlayerOfBabies] but the entire reason you separate it as its own category is so you can say you have a record in "x" category, no? [/quote]

[quote=SlayerOfBabies] the fact that you're making leaderboards for a far easier category just screams "i really need to feel relevant"

no? [/quote]

I don't think I've ever read a more ignorant post in my entire life. Congratulations dude, you win.

Just to further showcase your level of ignorance, I'd like to bring up a few examples.

1. Look at the top of this page (page 3) of this thread. See my post regarding track and field? Sprinting and Middle-distance running? So, I'm assuming you find the 110 meter hurdle WR less impressive than the 100 meter dash WR? Is the 1600 meter WR less impressive than the 100 meter dash? According to you, it has to be, and it's not something left up to opinion because, according to you, the faster event will ALWAYS be more impressive.

2. If right now, you were tasked at either getting WR in GTA IV under Classic% or Any%, you'd likely first check the WR time in Any% and then move on and find out the WR time for Classic%. You'd find that these times are respectively 5:11:05 and 5:37:12. I'd assume you'd know as fact that it'd be easier to get the Classic% world record because, after all, it's slower and therefore must be less of a challenge, less difficult. You would know this as fact, right? I mean, this is how you think....or am I misunderstanding what you've said in your post?

News flash, buddy. As of today, the Classic% WR is much more impressive and much more difficult to obtain. The level of skill required to get the Classic% WR is much greater than that needed to get the Any% WR. I would know.

Oh, and by the way, the above reply, from Guy, to your post, has a bit of a back story. In case you fail to understand the point of that reply, I'll explain. The Any% WR in IV sat at 5:50:55. I further optimized Classic% until I eventually got a time under the Classic% rules which beat the Any% WR. At the time, this was a 5h 49m 57s. It then became a 5h 49m 40s and then 5h 37m 12s. At the time of the submission, I had achieved WR in Any% while doing Classic%. This automatically makes the Classic% WR more impressive. Though, I eventually did an Any% run and got a 5:11:05, the current Any% WR. A faster yet less impressive time when you consider the limitations of Classic%. With GTA V, Classic% will likely never be faster than Any%, but still, the current Classic% WR is much more impressive when compared to the Any% WR, which is the only time on that leaderboard. It's all about the level of competition and how optimized the run is, under any and all limitations.

Please, dude, use some common sense before you post next time. Your ignorance levels are blinding.

Naegleria, you're literally making me want to pull my hair out when I read these asinine comments and suggestions from you. The name is "Classic%" and it will forever be "Classic%". Any time you've ever seen someone title something "Any% (classic rules)", it's because they're poking fun at this exact type of crap going on in this thread. Tell me Naegleria, have you streamed nearly 2000 hours of a speedrun titled "Classic%"? Have you streamed nearly 2000 hours with a title including either "Classic%" or "(classic rules)"? No? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm? Well, I have, and I can come here with the "fucking wisdom" to back what I have to say.

After all these hours of streaming, I've seen "What is Classic%?" or "What is (classic rules)?" asked in chat probably around 300 times. Most times, I answered, vocally, stating the exactly what you'll see listed under Classic% on the GTA IV leaderboards. Eventually, I made a command which people caught on to and viewers would execute this command the moment they saw someone ask. Sometimes I, vocally, told the person asking the question that they could enter this command and get their answer, and they did. Guess how many times the person asking "What is "Classic%"?" became confused and felt the need to ask more or question the name? NEVER. LITERALLY, ZERO TIMES DID THIS HAPPEN. This is the honest to god truth and if you refuse to believe it, I'd understand, coming from you.

You might be wanting to say, "Well, don't you realize that if you had titled these 2000 hours of streaming "GTA IV speedrunning with these restrictions: Autosave disabled,Traffic density set to 33, No fast travel via taxi service, No video editor warp", you probably could have avoided most of the questions?" and my response to this would be, "Naegleria, you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?"

The category was never about keeping the run in line with previous GTAs. If this had been the case, the use of vehicles brand new to the GTA series with GTA IV (Ex. Futo), would have been disallowed. This point has been beat to death many times over by now. Still, the word "classic" has other meaning. If you search for the definition of "classic", you'll find the definition of "classic" as an adjective which is: judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind. or, one of the definitions of the noun, "classic": a major sports tournament or competition, as in golf or tennis ( or fuckin' speedrunning OpieOP )

Now, if you take a moment and actually use your brain, you'll be able to understand why the name "Classic%" actually makes sense. The category wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the type of person who has a somewhat rebellious attitude towards speedrunning. This person saw what Any% offered and came to the conclusion that they could come up with a "higher quality" speedrun, something which, at least to them, would be the better category to run. Once they created "Classic%", they took a step back and compared the two and felt that Classic% was the better category. At this point, there's only one person running this new category, shouldn't they be the one to name it whatever they want? Of course they should. They named it "Classic%" and from this point forward, the category sat waiting for others to run it. In time, others came along and judged the two categories, some chose Any%, others chose Classic%. But, wait......WHAT'S THIS??!?!?!?!? MORE PEOPLE CHOSE CLASSIC% WHEN IT ACTUALLY CAME TO SITTING THEIR ASS DOWN AND SPEEDRUNNING THE GAME?!?!?!

But see, the point is, the numbers don't actually matter. I couldn't care less if more people have ran Classic% as opposed to Any%. As it stands, the Classic% leaderboard for IV should have a total of 8 times (Kyle, Itsab, Dispersor, Greko, Jolzi, Slurry, Etholon, and Ryedawg) while the Any% LB, as far as I know, is complete with four times (Kyle, Nord, Ilias, schA_de). With GTA V, just compare, here: http://www.speedrun.com/gtav#Classic.

As I've said, the numbers don't matter because we come back to the point I made two paragraphs ago, which is -> the name actually does make sense, regardless of the numbers. Let's say I'm someone who despises "Classic%". I clearly wouldn't ever feel the category could be considered "classic". Yet, there are a group of people who do feel it's the category "of highest quality" and/or "outstanding of its kind". The rules exist not because of some nonsense regarding past GTA games, but because the person who put them in place felt they were creating a category which would be more enjoyable to speedrun. It's an offshoot category which gained a following. You don't have to agree that the category is "classic", but they do. Majority or minority, it doesn't matter. In a way, it's kind of like a cult classic. The name will remain, over the years, we'll see how the numbers change, but no matter how they change, the category will still exist and will likely always have existed. If there's to ever be a speedrunning history book, Classic% will at least go down as the offshoot category which ended up being more popular than Any% (series specific of course), at least for the first few years of it's existence. As other's have said, "...it's the name under which the category is known and there's no point changing it.", and now, with this post, I hope slowed this nonsense train down.

The name will forever be known as "Classic%", I guarantee it. You're welcome to title your streams or videos "GTA (ROMAN NUMERAL) SPEEDRUNNING UNDER THIS RESTRICTION AND THAT RESTRICTION AND THESE RESTRICTIONS AND THOSE RESTRICTIONS", but the category always be officially known as "Classic%". The rules of Classic% will differ between games because the games change and the rules have to be tweaked when the runners of the category feel they need to be. For instance, with the PC release of V, you can now video editor warp, just as you could do in IV. The runner's of V have already disallowed this in Classic% not because it wasn't available in previous GTAs, because....well, it was in a previous GTA game, GTA IV, but because they feel it makes the category better. I've heard them discuss this and never once did I hear:

"Hey guys, should we disallow video editor warps, it wasn't in any of the previous GTA releas.....oh wait yes it was and oh wait, so was the use of taxi warping at any time, and oh wait, so was autosave, oh shit, I guess Classic% is dead because GTA IV had all of these things, hmmmm, what should we add to help our classic%, oh I guess it'd be nice to disallow special abilities because they weren't in any of the previous GTA games, ok good guys, we've done a good job guys."

No, I didn't ever hear such a thing because this would be ridiculous. I was once brand new to GTA speedrunning. How is it that I instantly recognized why Classic% existed? How did I manage to read the rules and/or hear an brief explanation of the category and not become confused? I pity you, Naegleria, if you're serious about being confused. How did I manage to use common sense and come away making sense of the category. I've been in the driver's seat of around 2000 hours worth of potential questions and confusion and I have virtually never seen an ounce of confusion from viewers after they saw or heard that brief explanation that I once saw/heard for the first time. It's hilarious that the potentially legitimate confusion only has ever appeared on the GTA SPEEDRUNNING FORUMS. How did you manage to make it this far and still find yourself confused? Do you see where I'm going with this? I don't believe you when you say you're confused. All I see when I read your posts is a fool who has a completely worthless opinion when it comes to these issues. You've shown you lack intuition. So, please, carry on with your shit, because it's futile.

DOWN WITH THE 110 METER HURDLES! WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY ADD ON 10 METERS!?!?!? THE 100 METER DASH IS FASTER THAN THE 110 METER HURDLES!!! WHY WOULD THEY PLACE HURDLES ON THE TRACK!?!?!?!? IT'S JUST SLOWING THE RUNNERS DOWN!!!! WHY DID THEY EXTEND IT BY 10 METERS?!?! WHY IS THERE A 200 METER DASH?!?! WHY IS THERE A 400 METER DASH?!?!?! THESE ARE SLOWER EVENTS!!!! OH, AND WHAT THE FUCK IS A STEEPLECHASE? WET SHOES?!?!? I DON'T CARE IF THE 1600 METER IS TESTING MORE THAN JUST SPEED!!! THE 1600 METER IS SLOWER THAN THE 100 METER!!!! I CALL FOR THE 110 METER HURDLES TO BE REMOVED FROM FUTURE OLYMPIC EVENTS AND ALL EXISTING RECORDS BE DESTROYED!!! THE 110 METER HURDLES IS BASICALLY JUST TAKING THE 100 METER DASH AND ADDING UNNECESSARY RESTRICTIONS!!! WHY DOES THE 110 METER HURDLES REQUIRE ENDING "10 EXTRA METERS" AND NOT ENDING "END AT 100 METER MARK"?!?!?!? I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK HOW MANY COMPETITORS THIS COMPETITION HAS!!!! IT CANNOT BE CONSIDERED A REAL COMPETITION BECAUSE THERE ARE ADDED RESTRICTIONS WHICH I FEEL ARE ARBITRARY AND UNNECESSARY!!! HOW HAS THIS BLASPHEMY GONE ON FOR ALL THIS TIME?!??!?!

Oh, and by the way, when did the world record for the 100 meter dash become sub 10? Last I knew, Donald Lippincott held the record at 10.6. When did Usain Bolt get a 9.58???

I'd like to know why this isn't part of 100% when LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE IS.

I also just like to stick to categories which begin at the start and almost immediately differ from the Any%/Classic% run.

How did it take me until now to realize what a great category this would be? Fastest way to complete this run:

Timer starts where you'd start your timer for Any%/Classic%.

1. Shoot down a police heli
2. Fly under all of the "Under The Radar" achievement bridges. Timer ends when you hear the in-game tone for flying under the final bridge .

I have a route in mind.

What I say in the comment is a major exaggeration, almost entirely because of the later half of the run. I could explain my reasoning for why my currently Classic% route is planned the way it is, but it would take a while. Besides, I'm going to only focus on Any% for now on. Classic% is going to soon become completely irrelevant. Yes, Classic% was at least "somewhat" relevant in the past, simply because you were able to beat the Any% WR under "classic rules". This won't be the case for very much longer. Soon, Any% will be the go to category for anyone wanting to run this game. The route will be just as well prepared as Classic%'s, if not better. The only active runners of the game will be running Any%. I can't imagine anyone wanting to run Classic% in the near future and forever onward. With that said, Feurigerilias could explain the current Any% route much better than I could, as of now. Hopefully, I'll get involved and combine my Classic% knowledge with the current Any% route and improve it to some degree.

^ (S's post is in response to mine, which had been edited multiple times and then removed)

Final post from my on this thread/topic:

Actually, I really don't like the idea of having variables, at all. My campaign has been defeated, but I am extremely satisfied with my attempt. This means Classic% will remain the way it always has. No variables will be added to either of the categories. Any% is anything. Classic% is autosave disabled, traffic density set to 33, no fast travel via taxi service, no video editor warp. S, if you could remove both polls, edit the title of this thread to something more appropriate now, and remove the thread I started on the main forum, that'd be great.

One thing remains a mystery. Where is Dispersor's Classic% time and why did he or someone else remove it?

Here's a question for someone to answer. Has the amount of traffic been increased on any of the PC ports of other games in the series, when compared to their respective console version? If so, can you provide an actual % increase?

For right now, let's say the above has not happened and all prior PC ports were identical to their console counterpart when it came to "traffic density". That would mean I have to stop arguing for a change at all. But, if all prior PC ports have indeed increased the amount of traffic by the same percentage (likely found within the files of these games, though, I can't seem to find an answer online), that would be "Classic%" should require an INCREASE in traffic density, by the same percentage.

The main poll, for those who have completed either a Classic% or Any% run of GTA IV, is here: http://www.speedrun.com/gtaiv/thread/zhexa

The secondary poll, for everyone else, is here: http://www.speedrun.com/gtaiv/thread/3k714/1#kngv7

Vote in the appropriate poll, if you care to.

The discussion thread is linked to in each of the polls as well as at the end of this post. See that thread to catch yourself up with what's been going on, if you'd like.

DISCUSSION THREAD: http://www.speedrun.com/gtaiv/thread/3pe8g

THIS POLL WILL RUN UNTIL THE MAIN POLL ENDS

If you're not caught up with what's been going on, read this entire thread: http://www.speedrun.com/gtaiv/thread/3pe8g

The following people can cast a single vote for this poll: Anyone who's not listed in the main poll

So, all you need to do now is either: Reply with "1" if you support the removal of the traffic density rule or Reply with "2" if you support keeping the traffic density rule

Any additional comments left in this thread will be removed. Leave those for the other thread.

A poll is now up and running. This poll will decide what happens with this rule and then it will be end of story.

http://www.speedrun.com/gtaiv/thread/zhexa/1#yhlpa

1

THIS POLL WILL RUN UNTIL WE ALL AGREE IT SHOULD END or EVERYONE LISTED BELOW, VOTES

If you're not caught up with what's been going on, read this entire thread: http://www.speedrun.com/gtaiv/thread/3pe8g

The following people can cast a single vote for this poll: http://www.speedrun.com/user/Kyle http://www.speedrun.com/user/Itsab11 http://www.speedrun.com/user/Dispersor http://www.speedrun.com/user/Grekokov http://www.speedrun.com/user/Jolzi http://www.speedrun.com/user/ryedawg http://www.speedrun.com/user/Nord http://www.speedrun.com/user/Feurigerilias http://www.speedrun.com/user/schA_de http://www.speedrun.com/user/etholon (Classic%: 7:47:28) Man_slurry (GTA IV : 7:21:40 - Classic%) - http://www.twitch.tv/man_slurry

Basically, the above list should be including everyone who has completed a full Classic% and/or Any% run. If you have an issue with the inclusion of someone on this list or feel someone is missing, please either PM me on Twitch or say so in the thread linked at the beginning of this post. If you message me on Twitch, I'm assuming you don't want others to know what you've had to say and I'll keep it between us.

So, all you need to do now is either: Reply with "1" if you support the removal of the traffic density rule or Reply with "2" if you support keeping the traffic density rule

Any additional comments left in this thread will be removed. Leave those for the other thread.

Here's a point which has vaguely been brought up. Why should the opinions of those who don't run the game anymore matter to the cause? I wouldn't expect my opinion to matter if I knew I was never going to seriously run the category again. I mean, I respect your opinions, but I don't feel they should necessarily have any effect on the outcome if you don't even run the game anymore. So I ask, Dispersor, do you have plans to seriously run the category again? You can always set your TD to 33 if you ever do run again, seriously or casually, if this change remains in effect. And, Jolzi, the same question for you. I bring this up because I've heard two highly active, GTA speedrunners question why the opinions of those who no longer run the game should be considered. What did the decision with San Andreas and the frame limiter come down to? If all of the active runners of SA had agreed on requiring use of the frame limiter while an equal number of inactive/or...let's say "retired" runners had agreed on not requiring it, would they have agreed the issue should sit stagnate or would the active runners have said, "We're actually running this game, I think it's up to us to decide." Would any SA people who took part in this decision like to shed some light here?

There honestly will never be a moment in the Classic% run where you absolutely need to up the density from 1. The only time I could possibly think of where it ¤may¤ help is just after finishing "Call and Collect". It is possible to get the helicopter out without pushing it, though it will take some damage. I've seen Feurigerilias do this before. I for one almost always took the safe route, but it's not very difficult to learn. Other than this, there's never a moment during the run where you would need to change the density, unless there does exist that ONE time that I can't think of atm.

Come on people, RNG has never been fun or interesting in IV's Classic% run. The only reason it exists is because Etholon, the guy who created Classic% but for some reason has no time on the leaderboard even though he has a Classic% PB, thought it'd be a good idea to keep the console and PC versions as equal as possible (even though we now use Clip Capture on PC to save around 20 seconds, something console runners can't do). It doesn't reflect how any other offshoot speedrunning category is handled. It doesn't reflect the original point of Classic% (which I never subscribed to) which Feurigerilias alluded to with the following in his above post:

QUOTE: But even bigger and more importan, every single 3D Gta has a way of despawning traffic. GTA3 has camera switching and top down, VC has the camera backwards facing and San Andreas uses also the camera to despawn. All these games remove traffic. Why should the same not be allowed if it is possible to set down the traffic density? - Feurigerilias

Exactly, did Etholon not realized the importance of traffic manipulation in the previous GTA titles? If he did, and truly wanted to make Classic% a category which only allowed the use of features which were available in previous titles, wouldn't he have allowed the player to change TD throughout the run? It is after all, IV's version of traffic manipulation. Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if Classic% was ever intended to be about "nostalgia" or "keeping it like previous GTAs". People have already pointed out 100's of times how not allowing taxis doesn't exactly mimic the certain 3D era GTA titles. So, the only thing left is the autosave feature and the video editor warp. That's all I really have to say. I would never want to remove the taxi or autosave/video editor rules. They reflect what I have always felt the point of Classic% is and if you still don't know what that is, see the thread about GTA V's required ending, located on the main GTA Forum page.

(From Jolzi's post) If traffic is set to 1. You can't really say person x is better at driving, because he doesn't hit cars that didn't spawn. The most time spend in a GTA run is driving after all. But on the other hand menuing skill becomes a thing.

^ How would person X not be considered better at driving when compared to person Y if both players did a time trial around the same, empty track? I don't know if you're trying to compare past times with future times under this rule change, or something else entirely.

(From Jolzi's post) I know you will say a speedrun doesn't need to be entertaining for the viewers and that it's about the fastest times, but the classic rule set was made with entertainment in mind for the exchange of speed.

^ Yeah, the category was made for people to run it, people who found it more entertaining than any%. It wasn't created to give viewers a chance to see a runner get screwed by unavoidable RNG. All of the rules lead to more entertainment for the runner, except for the TD rule. Whom from the past and whom from the present would have chose not to run Classic% if the TD rule never existed, but all others did? Absolutely no one. On the contrary, whom from the past and whom from the present would have chose not to run Classic% if the taxi rule AND the TD rule never existed. Likely every single person because who in the hell would not run Any%, if forced to pick one or the other, when the only restriction Classic% has is autosave/video editor? The answer is everyone. Admit it, Classic% is really about not using the taxi. No one really gives a damn about any of the other rules, well, unless you're here in this thread hoping to not lose the TD rule.

All of this talk about "traffic makes the run more entertaining" just makes me shake my head. Who on Earth finds enjoyment knowing that they might lose time during the run because of those instances of completely unavoidable RNG? Ilias has already made great points regarding traffic, so I won't repeat them. The way he feels is pretty much spot on to how I feel. We do Classic% because WE enjoy it and the only reason there's something for viewers to watch is because WE enjoy it. I'm not trying to provide entertainment for people who enjoy watching something I DON'T enjoy playing. (At TD 33, I give Classic% a 99%. At TD 1/varies, I'll give Classic% a 100%.)

Again, I'll state the number one reason why I feel this traffic density rule NEEDS to be removed. Allowing the player to change the density will lead to actual strategies filling the areas which were once dictated by RNG, even if it becomes the simplest strategy known to man.

Molotok, who should I consult when making a decision for a speedrun which is virtual ran by no one but myself anymore? I respect Dispersor's opinion. One of his main concerns is preserving whatever "legitimacy" Classic% already has. He also clearly would like to increase the legitimacy of Classic% and in my opinion, this change can only do this exact thing. I really would like to know who out there feels Classic% is an illegitimate category. Please, I request whoever you are to speak up in this thread. Is it because no one runs it, even though more people have ran Classic% than Any%? Is it because of the phonecall RNG? Well, both Classic% and Any% have phonecall RNG. If someone out there feels it's illegitimate because of what they feel is lots of RNG, how can decreasing RNG (by removing this TD rule) make the category MORE illegitimate? Please, for the love of god, someone, answer this question! Is Portal's "Any% (no OOB)" category illegitimate? It is ran by nearly 3x more people than "Any%". Regardless, is it illegitimate because its rules will always make it a purposely slower category than good old Any%? What defines "legitimacy" in the world of speedrunning? Can Any% be the only legitimate category, no matter what the game? Is VC All Missions completely illegitimate because it's always going to be slower than VC Any%? What if a game's Any% is filled with RNG? Can it never be considered legitimate?

...........

I hope you're catching on by now that I feel this talk of "legitimacy" is absolutely ridiculous and I couldn't care less if anyone actually answers any of these questions I've proposed, but you can still answer any or all of them and I promise you I'll give your response some thought.

Lastly, take a look at the SA "frame limiter should be required" thread: http://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/2kd5h Most of the responses were from people who actually ran the game. It'd be nice if this thread could get some responses from other names on the IV leaderboards. Even if you're not on the leaderboard, your thoughts are welcomed too. I sent a "tweet" out earlier today as an attempt to bring some more discussion to this thread, but have yet to see any results.

When you run Any%, you are actually restricting yourself more than if you ran Classic%. No runner of Any% will ever not take a cab when possible after they become available. It's like stairs vs. escalator issue, use your bodily ability or not. You are restricted from driving and flying many in-game miles, even though you could, because you know that you must take a cab to stand a chance in the category. You lose many minutes of the showcasing of a player's skill behind the wheel or in the cockpit. There are people who hate driving, no matter what the game may be. One of the most common gripes regarding SA Any% are the long drives. So, what is truly the more restrictive category? The one where you turn the game into what might as well be the equivalent of a mission select screen after 20 minutes of gameplay or the one which begged you to use your freedom to come up with a route and strategies and actually allow you to express your ideas? Are we women in Saudi Arabia or women in the United States?

Your comments on what is and what isn't RNG in IV seem to simply be an opinion of yours which you may or may not believe, but I assume you do. I guess you've come to believe that is how the game works, but I for one have not. After what is likely close to 3000 hours of gameplay, which includes my time with this game before I began speedrunning it, I have never once even came close to a conclusion like you have regarding how traffic/pedestrians work within the code. After near 3000 hours, what is my conclusion? It's RNG, nothing more, nothing less. I don't believe for even a second that there is code being executed which is basically doing the following: Checking to see if a player avoided cars at an intersection and then prepares to spawn less cars at the next few intersections the player reaches and/or begin to spawn less traffic on the streets. Ask Feurigerilias, an Any% runner, how he feels about playing with TD set to 1. He did Classic% for long enough to be able to see the difference it makes and I've watched his Any% runs, so I'm also able to pick up on any differences. The conclusion, at least from me? Most of the time, you wonder if setting TD to 1 has even made a major difference. Traffic still gets in the way, still turns in front of you, still sits at intersections leaving you no choice but to crash through polls on the sidewalk in order to reach a marker before a dialogue line. Mind you, this is mostly seen before taxi travel is unlocked.

Lastly, I never claimed someone will be able to get a faster time because of this change. What I'm claiming is this category will now be dictated less by RNG and more by the player. As I already said, allowing the player to change the density will lead to actual strategies filling the areas which were once dictated by RNG. How could you possibly feel this change will make the category even more illegitimate? I can't imagine anyone feeling a speedrun with more RNG is more legitimate than a speedrun with less.

As you have already stated, a point which has been known to me since even before I began to run the game, the TD rule was put into effect SOLELY because on consoles, TD is set in stone at 33. At that time and still to this day, that decision in no way reflected how rules are handled with most, if not all other games begin speedran. I have absolutely no knowledge of a rule existing for any other run which was put into affect in order to keep it "fair" between different consoles. Good intentions, but a bad rule.

The following comments are simply observations of mine and may or may not mean anything in the long-run: Mhmd_FVC, someone I've heard in the past make statements regarding Classic% which would make it clear he finds the category pretty "illegitimate", "liked" the OP in this thread. Feurigerilias, a runner of both Classic% and Any%, probably supports this change based on comments I've heard him make, though I've yet to ask him directly. Lanayru, one of the few who has actually spent some time with Classic, and I believe Any%, made this comment regarding this change, "nice, apart from me getting mad having to drive one end to other this will make races better". Jolzi, who you know has spent enough time with this game to have a valuable opinion, knew about this change thanks to Twitter and made one comment which was a reply to Lanayru's comment of, "inb4 that someone says changing density is cheating", and it read, "¤menuing is cheating". I would assume he either doesn't care or he agrees. Ryedawg also supports the removal of this rule from what he's shown on Twitter. Lastly, GTA V Classic% runners and what appears to be an already solid decision to not have a TD rule for the PC version. That's all, and as I said, these are just observations.

Plus, traffic density differs between last gen and current gen for GTA V. Surely there will be a TD option on PC, so what are they to do with the rule? Let's say last gen is set to 33 and current gen is set to 50. Does this mean the rule for Classic% V on PC should state "Traffic Density must be set to either 33 or 50 at any given time during the run"? Seems outrageous, and from what I've gathered from those involved with V speedrunning, there won't be a TD rule for PC. Therefore, shouldn't we try to keep the category as identical as possible between games where people see a need for "Classic%"?

Lowering TD leads to a decrease in RNG dictated scenarios, plain and simple. You're going to have less of the "damn that car ended up directly in my path, there was no where for me to go" moments. Do you find these moments interesting and/or fun? I certainly don't and I would guess most speedrunners would agree with me. Most games have their own equivalent of this type of moment. I have never once found any sort of redeeming factor in approaching the wall during the mission "Ryder" in SA and T-boning a car which was impossible for me to known was there. More people know what I'm talking about with this example than any example I could describe in IV, so this is what I've used to get my point across. So, yes, I feel this will make the run more interesting and more fun.

Whether or not your statement on "legitimacy" is true, I'm the guy who couldn't care less what anyone thinks of this category and/or GTA IV in general. What I do care about is making the category better for those who do enjoy running and/or watching right now, and in the future.

On average, a good driver in IV will likely experience little to no benefits from this change. There are moments where you need a car to spawn nearby, maybe to push the helicopter, and who knows if having TD set to 1 will more times than not, negatively affect a runner. It would only make sense that it would, so maybe it will come to be known that you probably should increase TD before a specific moment. Maybe it will take a bit longer to reach a car when you've kept TD at 1 before a moment like this. One thing is for sure, having the option to change the density whenever one wants to can only lead to more "strats", which equals a more interesting run, in my mind. At the present moment, I'm guessing there will be a balance between time saved and time lost, no matter what you have your density set to throughout the run. I guess what I'm trying to get across is that I feel allowing the player to change the density will lead to actual strategies filling the areas which were once dictated by RNG.

Another opinion of mine is that Any% is more RNG heavy when compared to Classic%, which is one of the reasons as to why I have stuck to Classic%. You are never guaranteed a "good" taxi spawn when you need it, this is why. There are less moments of "please RNG, help me out" in Classic% as compared to Any%, so in my opinion, it is an overall better speedrun.

Another thing to consider is that with GTA IV, the first in the series to offer the player multiple endings, you're not required to pick a specific ending in Classic%, so why would you be required to pick a specific ending in V? I never bought into the ideology that Classic% is about keeping the speedrun in line with previous titles and/or their speedruns, but supporters of the required ending rule do, and in my mind, it would make much more sense NOT to require a specific ending simply because you were never required to do so in IV's Classic%.

On a different note, in my opinion, "Classic%" is about not allowing skips/warps which are available to the player at an almost constant rate. Also, I feel the name should stay because it's only a name after all and people in this community have come to associate the name "Classic%" with a GTA speedrun which doesn't allow "skips/warps which are available to the player at an almost constant rate."