The strategy is to hold F (or whatever you enter/exit vehicle key is) the moment you've triggered a marker, continuing holding F as you press the key to skip a cutscene, and then let go of F once you're back in control. I'm pretty sure the vehicle has to be close to the marker for this to work.

Normally, the vehicle you're in will disappear after skipping the cutscene which happens before getting into the Banshee.

This marker cannot be triggered while in the helicopter, you have to get out and have Phil in the marker's range. If I hadn't held F after triggering the marker, the heli would have disappeared.

Your grenade or rocket has to land/hit the door for the manager to trigger.

~10 seconds faster than any other strategy.

Aim at the bottom of the wall (the seam between the wall and the floor). A grenade should also work, but I haven't tried.

This will save you between 10-15 seconds. Also, it's faster to take the car outside the house, as I do in the video, than to run back to an awaiting cab.

A faster strat.

I always time these from the moment I hit the marker (during the mission) to the moment I touch the taxi (after the mission has been passed).

Compared to the old strat, which relied on cop RNG, this is about 10-15 seconds faster.

A faster strat would involve getting him to jump into the water without falling in yourself. You could also try to get him to climb onto a car, parked next to the railing, and push him into the water from there, shooting him from on the car. (I tried this a couple times, but he wouldn't climb onto the car.)

My route back to the taxi isn't the best in the video (had I not had to wait), climbing up the hill would be faster, I think.

Jumping into the water, with him following closely behind, and swimming out to the barge to snipe him seems like a good idea. You'd just video warp, right? Yes, but if you end up in Bohan, a perfect taxi at the intersection to the right will actually take longer than what you see in the video. (I tried this.)

Triggering him and running left, luring him down to some metal stairs leading into the water may also seem like a good idea, but I tried this and found it to be a little bit slower.

(FASTER STRAT IN THIRD POST)

Feurigerilias brought this to our attention. I tested many different ways using this water strat to my advantage and this one was the fastest by a few seconds. Turning around while still in the ankle deep water, near the stairs, and shooting him can make this a little bit faster. You may also be able to get off a shot on him from the railing. Either way, try to jump into the water at the spot I did. If you jump any further to the right, you risk him not jumping in the water at all and instead he'll run down to the shallow part, where he can stand. He may also jump into the water and swim to that spot if he's too close when he hits the water. The reason I passed the mission is because he eventually dies in the water, not because I got too far away, but because he'll just eventually die if he continues to swim. I may have been able to just get into the taxi and travel to a marked spot before he dies, and still passed the mission. I'll have to try this. Post your ideas and proven enhancements in the thread.

I did some testing to see how the in game timer gets its times for "Time played as character" and here's what I found after some quick testing:

-The only times I could find during which the in game timer completely stopped running (other than when you pause), for any and all characters, was

1. After a mission fail which isn't the result of a death of the character you're playing as. The timer continued to run until the mission failed screen showed the keys/buttons in the bottom right. Before these appear, it's still running. When you press one and the game gets going again, the timer starts up again. (milliseconds - however long you take to input a key after you're able to)
2. After a death of the character you're playing as. If you're not on a mission and die, the timer seems to stop running the moment you die and stays idle until the fade in occurs (6-8 second pause). 2a. When you're on a mission and die, the timer stops running the moment you die and stays idle until you make the necessary input to trigger the next fade in. (~7 seconds?) 2b. Continuing from 2a, a mission section skip seems to leave the timer idle for a few more seconds, depending on the load.

-The stats menu found on the in game social club menu (press your Home key to access this) doesn't update until you save the game with either a save, autosave, or quicksave.

-The in game timer will sometimes run for multiple characters, at the same time, e.g., at some point after triggering the cutscene at the car during Prologue, the timer will be running for both Michael AND Trevor.

-The in game timer starts running for Michael the moment you start a new game (during the loading screens)

-The in game timer will run in real time during slow motion (I only tested the slow mo while holding ALT for character switching, but I assume it works in the same way for all slow motion moments)

-The in game timer will continue to run for whatever character you're using when you're holding ALT and the character switch menu is up. The moment you select a different character, the in game timer will instantly begin timing for the character you're switching to (during camera lift off and descent) and will stop timing for the previous character (Tested the required switch during Prologue and a typical switch out of mission)

-The timer definitely continues running during "some" cutscenes (not sure about moments of loading between cutscenes), and I'm not sure if there are some cutscenes where it doesn't run at all, but it was running during Michael's burial scene for ONLY Trevor's stat. (As I said previously, at some point before this, it was running for both Michael and Trevor during a cutscene)

-The in game timer never stops running during taxi interaction, even during the black screen when you trip skip.

-The timer continues running during shopping screens and I'd assume during web browsing as well (though I didn't test web browsing)

(Mission name: whether or not the results screen has an overall mission time stat) 75 missions, 45 with, 30 without

Masks: Face Time - Purchase all masks within 20 seconds Boiler Suits: Quick Shopper - Purchase all outfits within 30 seconds Tow Truck: Time - Complete within 3:00 The Ballad of Rocco: Time - Complete within 03:00 Hang Ten: Time - Complete within 04:00 Trevor Philips Industries: Time - Complete within 4:30 Sidetracked: Time - Complete within 04:30 Complications: Finish the mission in 5 minutes Trash Truck: Time - Complete within 5:00 Driller: Time - Complete within 05:00 Marriage Counseling: Time - Complete within 05:30 Cargobob: Time - Complete within 05:30 Legal Trouble: Time - Complete within 05:30 Repossession: Time - Complete within 06:30 Meltdown: Time - Complete within 6:30 Hood Safari: Time - Complete within 07:00 The Wrap Up: Time - Complete within 07:00 Three's Company: Time - Complete within 07:30 Casing the Jewel Store: Time - Complete within 08:00 Friend Request: Time - Complete within 08:30 Minisub: Time - Complete within 08:30 Predator: Time - Complete within 9:00 Cleaning out the Bureau: Time - Complete within 09:00 Dead Man Walking: Time - Complete within 09:30 Caida Libre: Mission Time - Complete the mission in 9:45 Mr. Richards: Mission Time - Complete within 10:00 The Long Stretch: Time - Complete within 10:30 Reuniting the Family: Time - Complete within 10:30 Surveying the Score: Time - Complete within 11:00 Bury the Hatchet: Time - Complete within 11:00 Derailed: Time - Complete within 11:30 Mr. Philips: Time - Complete within 12:00 I Fought the Law...: Time - Complete within 12:00 Pack Man: Time - Complete within 12:00 Nervous Ron: Time - Complete within 12:30 Monkey Business: Time - Complete within 13:30 Lamar Down: Time - Complete within 13:30 The Merryweather Heist: ---Offshore: Time - Complete within 14:30 Did Somebody Say Yoga?: Mission Time - Complete within 15:00 The Paleto Score: Time - Complete within 16:00 The Big Score: ---Obvious: Time - Complete within 16:00 The Bureau Raid: ---Covert: Time - Complete within 18:00 ---Roof: Time - Complete within 19:00 Scouting the Port: Time - Complete within 20:00 Endings: (C) The Third Way: Time - Complete within 21:30

Prologue: NA Franklin and Lamar: NA Chop: NA Father/Son: NA Daddy's Little Girl: NA Carbine Rifles: NA Bugstars Equipment: NA BZ Gas Grenades: NA The Jewel Store Job: ---Loud: NA ---Smart: NA Friends Reunited: NA Crystal Maze: NA Fame or Shame: NA By the Book: NA Eye in the Sky: NA Deep Inside: NA The Merryweather Heist: ---Freight: NA Blitz Play: NA Minor Turbulence: NA Paleto Score Setup: NA Military Hardware: NA Planning the Big Score: NA Stingers: NA Gauntlet: NA Fire Truck: NA Architect's Plans: NA Fresh Meat: NA The Big Score: ---Subtle: NA Endings: (A) Something Sensible: NA (B) The Time's Come: NA

EDITED MAY 4th, a complete reversal of how I feel ILs should be done/timed:

If I were compiling a list of rules+, this is what it'd look like:

1. All missions should be manually timed (RTA).
2. If a mission has a results screen, it will be timed (RTA) from the first frame following a loading screen (this first frame may be the start to a cutscene) up to the first frame of the results screen.
3. If a mission doesn't end with a results screen, e.g., "Prologue", "Franklin and Lamar", then the runners of the game should decide how these missions should be timed. Timing info should be placed under the rules section for these ILs.
4. If the player enters a cheat code DURING a mission, the attempt cannot be accepted. The results screen, if there is one, will show "Cheated" at the top if this did occur.
5. Anything can be used in preparation for the mission (a waiting taxi, pre-placed map marker, weapons, cars, aircraft, etc.)

¤I encourage the runners to check what starts off these missions when you start them up through the replay feature. Base the start of the timing off of the first frame of whatever you see after a loading screen. For instance, with "Prologue", I think timing should begin on the first frame of that black screen with white text and end on the first frame of the cutscene following loss of control with Trevor after running away from the police.

ryedawg remembered to forget BrokeBack

Yeah, ok. I've never seen someone not get a white splash screen no matter how they started a new game (in IV), but if it comes to a point where someone is pressing new game and instantly seeing the black screen i.e., the moment they hit new game - the in game timer started, I'd think this person is aware they're almost always getting this occurrence and they'd simply start the timer the moment they start a new game.

I might be coming off as a major advocate of starting timers when in-game timer starts, but I really don't care that much. We're already stopping the timer at a point where the in-game timer is still running, which isn't an issue in my mind, so syncing the starts shouldn't really be either. I just don't know if someone starting a new game in IV could ever experience something like what happens in your starts of the DLCs, especially TBOGT load #2.

This issue can remain up in the air for as long as it needs to as it's not a pressing issue ATM. I really would like to see some opinions from other runners, active and inactive. I know my comment on the 33 VD thread made it sound like I feel inactive runners shouldn't have a say in these kind of matters, but clearly this isn't how I feel as my final actions were a result of inactive runner's opinions. Plus, that reply was more of a "let's bring up a point which hasn't been discussed and see how people respond" kind of thing, fueled by seeing other active GTA runners making statements which got me thinking, "Hmmm, I should leave this reply and see how people respond."

Here's what I'm seeing:

TLAD Load 1: timer starts on first frame of black frame after splash at 19,383, ends at First menu frame at 36,600 (17 seconds, which is displayed in game) Load 2: timer starts on the first frame of "moving light Loading..." at 47,633 and ends at First menu frame at 1:03,100 (1:03,100 - 47,633 = 15.467 which rounds down to 15 seconds, which is displayed in game) Load 3: timer starts on the first frame of the "moving light Loading..." at 16,383, ends at First menu frame at 1:31,316 (15 seconds, which is displayed in game)

TLAD seems to be consistent in both its load times and when its timer starts and stops, at least when you start a new game on the pause menu. I'm aware I'm basing this on three tests.

TBOGT Load 1: timer starts on first frame of black frame after splash at 18,000, ends at First menu frame at 36,033 (18 seconds, which is displayed in game) Load 2: is confusing as it appears the timer begins at some point during the "sparkling" loading... Load 3: timer starts on first frame of I Luv LC at 1:16,683, ends at First menu frame 1:32,866 (16 seconds, which is displayed in game)

TBOGT is confusing.

Make of this what you want, but in my opinion, the timing method shouldn't have to be the same for IV and its DLCs. I like the idea of starting the timer when the game starts its, and so far with IV, no one has brought forth any confusing outcomes, so as it stands, I still like the idea of starting the timer for GTA IV (not either DLC) on the first black frame (when the game starts its).

If no one has a problem with #2, that's what it'll become. All previous run's times will be left alone. We'll wait a week before any "official" changes are made to give people a chance to reply to this thread.

You have some pretty fast loads in 2 and 3 after skipping the first cutscene. I've sometimes waited 3 to 4 seconds (rarely though). Usually, I wait just about 2 seconds, but sometimes (also rarely) have had < 1 second loads like you have in 2 and 3. It's really a question of, do we follow what the game does or do we compensate for these very minor load differences? We could also just agree to start the timer upon seeing the first frame of the game world/HUD after skipping the cutscene, but there's something about giving people the option to wait up until any point during the cutscene, to skip and start going, which makes me uneasy. Also, who knows if there exists some form of abuse which can be taken advantage of during this time.

^ don't you mean 3.6 s, 3.267 s, and 3.2 s?

and also, I think it's now confirmed that the in game timer starts with the black screen after these three additional tests.

2, but 3 works just as well, except 2 is when the in-game timer begins

Regardless of what the official timing rule is, there still can be abuse, e.g., starting the timer too late, intentionally or unintentionally. Many of the current PB vids have this going on. From this point forward, the official timing rule will be strictly enforced (and as of this post, it's start the timer when you skip the cutscene, so please get it in your head to press whatever key you use to skip the cutscene and whatever key you use to start your splits, AT THE SAME TIME, thanks).

IMO, this speedrun needs a timing method which:

1. Starts upon the appearance of a clear, specific frame (first black screen frame following white loading screens, first "The Cousins Bellic" frame, first frame of the flash which occurs upon resetting the N64 (SM64))
2. Ends upon the appearance of a clear, specific frame (The current rule specifies this should be upon the first frame of the fade in of the final cutscene and I think this is fine)

So, what should it be? 1, for when you select yes on the new game screen (aka, first frame of the white loading screens) 2, for the first frame of the black screen following the white loading screens 3, for the first frame of "The Cousins Bellic" on the black screen following the white loading screens

Yeah, that's the only issue with this. I also didn't consider when the in game timer starts. In this video, you can see that it must begin the moment you see a black screen, after the white loading screen(s).

I checked these times with Adobe Premiere: First frame of the white loading screen is at 0.12, I've compensated for this with the below times. First frame of the black screen is at 2.38 First frame of "Loading..." on the black screen is at 4.44 (impossible to see by watching the vid) First frame of "The Cousins Bellic" on the black screen is at 4.47 Last frame of "The Cousins Bellic" is at 5.72 First frame, during fade in, of the in game world is at 9.70 First frame of completely faded in world is at 10.66 First frame of the disappeared HUD after registering a pause is at 13.16 First frame of black screen is at 13.58 First frame of the menu, during fade in, is at 13.76

If the in game timer started with the appearance of "The Cousins Bellic", "Playing Time" would definitely not be 11 seconds, regardless of when the in game timer pauses. The consistency of white loading screen(s) can be terrible, I know, but is this also the case between the first black screen and the appearance of "Loading..."/"The Cousins Bellic"? I've looked at multiple videos and it seems it always takes about 2 seconds. Still, I feel the timer should start upon seeing the black screen, as this is when the in game timer begins, plus it's a much more noticeable. Loading times have always affected run times with GTA speedrunning, so is it really that big of a deal if it's only a second or two?

What do you think?

If we did this with IV:

Any%: Kyle: +13 Nord: +11 Ilias: +9 schA_de: +7 (video begins after new game is selected, so true addition is unknown)

Classic%: Kyle: +2 (video begins after new game is selected, so true addition is unknown) Itsab: +19 Greko: +7 Jolzi: +14 Ryedawg: +1 (video begins after new game is selected, so true addition is unknown)

My opinion is, adding on these times clearly wouldn't be fair for everyone for two reasons. One, three of the videos begin after the new game selection. Two, most runner's didn't immediately skip the cutscene, while a couple did. The original timing method has always stated that the timer should start the moment you skip the cutscene. Still, some runners started their timer after the fade in, the moment they can control the car. Regardless of what happens with current PBs, I feel the timing method should be changed to starting the timer upon starting a new game.

Edit: plus, because some people do abuse the current method of timing in IV, and also because IV mods have been pretty lackadaisical about enforcing this rule, I'd say we need to get rid of any possible abuse ASAP by starting the timer the moment you start a new game. This would mean the moment you select "Yes" to start a new game, you also start the timer.

Thoughts?

I just got off the phone with The Weinstein Company (film studio) after bringing to their attention that an upcoming release of theirs (The Hateful Eight, directed by Quentin Tarantino) has a title which does not work well with a large portion of the population and their inability to do a minuscule bit of research. I have generously provided them a name for this upcoming flick which I feel will better explain what it's all about.

Hold on a minute here, let me just get out my notes, excuse me for just a moment here, alright, here they are, ¤clears throat¤:

"Movie (American western film set after the Civil War, somewhere in Wyoming, concerning the events which unfold as eight westerners seek refuge in a stagecoach stopover on a mountain pass during a blizzard)"