Pal & Usa VS NSTC Jap | New Category ?!
8 years ago
Florida, USA

I just tried a variety ways of purchasing the Japanese version off the windows store. It won't let me use PayPal, and it won't accept my credit card because it's a different region than the store. You need a Japanese credit card or find a store that sells gift codes for the Japanese Windows Store...

Finland

15s is a lot once a run is really optimized, if someone basically got the same run as Xer1an, but on censored version, it would be pretty much unbeatable without new strats on uncensored version. Does that really have to happen before something is done? Or maybe we could time the amount it saves and add that to censored version, that's fair for both I'd say.

Sure it's not usually done on speedruns, but does that mean it can't be done?

United Kingdom

Unbeatable runs based on region are nothing new, though. It's something that has existed pretty much since the inception of speedrunning. In most cases NTSC-U and PAL times cannot compete with NTSC-J, and in a lot of cases it is impossible for either to beat NTSC-J through trivial means alone. Text scrolling being the main culprit.

This is RE7 but in the case of console, this still applies. PC is another ballpark here, because there's currently no known method of getting the Japanese version. Overseer was in the process of getting a friend of theirs, I believe, to upload the files of the Japanese version. Overseer even stated if their friend couldn't due to their poor internet speed that they personally would. The censorship may be something as simple as replacing a few files, which if that's the case then we can easily distribute the files and everyone can be on a level playing field. We don't currently know if this would work, however, it is worth a try.

As Punchy said, you're screwing one group to please another. There's no real way to win here. You separate them and basically entirely write off the Japanese players to please the European and American players, or it's left as it is now and the opposite is the case.

The easy solution is separation and throwing Japanese players up the metaphorical bus. Like finath said, there are solutions that are obviously gonna be harder to setup, such as deducting a flat amount of time off of non-Japanese runs, but these in the long run are far better and would please everybody.

XTerminator likes this
Finland

I actually meant adding the time to japanese runs, but either way works.

Chicago, IL, USA

I haven't run the game in the while, but I hope we can engineer a solution for PC as Toast is thinking. I think a great number of people in the community saw this being trouble, it was just a matter of time.

Lots of people running a new game + discovering faster strategies/versions = potential for controversy.

I don't really think it's fair to add the time to a Japanese runner's run or put them in a separate board. Fact is, if you are a Japanese player or have access to Japanese games/equipment, you are in a favorable position when it comes to speedrunning a lot of games. And the silly but true reality of running is that you may need to get esoteric equipment to go for the fastest time in the world.

For most of the people on the board, I don't think this is super important. I understand where Gilgamesh is coming from, once you have a pretty optimized time ~15 seconds is substantial. I just don't know if adding artificial time is really the best solution.

People should blame Capcom anyways for not having the sense to allow the censored version outside of Japan.

Alsace, France

Hello everyone !

So basically after reading and rereading all your messages in bulk you tell us to find a Japanese version and get it with you? No solution ?

Clearly even if the Japanese have a faster game I do not see or is the problem of either adding a time or another category, but in any case I agree with the certain that the day a Japanese came out of nowhere will peter All the record of the big PC (yours also in other) you go to do qlq things ...! After more you compare PC and console, excuse me but on pc it is much easier to recover a crack version of resident evil in Japanese version comparratively to us ...

In addition it is necessary to stop to say that there is only 15 seconds of decallage .... we must take time everywhere to see a real difference, here is a gameplay of AAAA08, already it does not use the Last strategy and that there is qlq error, I let you look at yourself at 1:18 45 "- 1:19 I agree but we clearly see its handle this deconnect for 9 seconds and realize a time still beating us 10 seconds .... then only 15 seconds for censorship can be, for all the games I do not think I would agree on the principle that separating the version is in qlq kind of discrimination but good we can not Not to put on a parity with them, despite the changes of language .. een big you tell us just to stay 2/3 to see off podium because one is not Japanese of the blow it is also unfair for us and I find it very damaging, The world should be on the same footing of equality ....

Thanks for reading and ala next everyone #Jig

Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktNTyFt4Gho

England

" but on pc it is much easier to recover a crack version of resident evil in Japanese version comparratively to us ... "

By all means show me a way to do that and I will. I'll wait.

Ok, are you back now? Yeah, it doesn't exist, does it? Nobody cracked the censored japanese version. It doesn't exist.

so no, it's actually way easier to get the japanese version on console, you can buy it off the online storefronts or import the disc easy peasy. For PC at the moment, the only solution is to either be risky and break Steam TOS and use a VPN, or grab an actual japanese person and get them to gift the game to your account. The former is questionable and probably shouldn't be encouraged, the latter is just plain difficult.

Edited by the author 8 years ago
s1a1n1d1i likes this
United Kingdom

It isn't easier to find a crack on the Japanese version. Like Punchy said.

Also, I believe someone said in the discord if you buy the Japanese version and gift it over to a non-Japanese account, it'll convert to the non-Japanese version.

Edited by the author 8 years ago
United Kingdom

At first I was against category separation due to the highly unlikely nature anything would occur, but it has and Japanese runners are getting closer in categories now, one record was even beaten by like the exact time the Japanese version takes.

I know it's work to separate categories and organise it all but for the sake of fairness I think it calls for separate categories, or an agreement of time additions, and soon, heck I'd do it if I could

Plakue likes this
Finland

Maybe we should vote what we want to do? I created straw poll at http://www.strawpoll.me/12481355 where you can vote what you think is the best solution.

United Kingdom

Best way to hold a vote about a matter like this is just have a vote here on the forums. People who care will look at the forums.

No offense to strawpolls, but they're easily manipulated because absolutely anyone can vote. That's not to say anyone would, strawpoll in general just sucks for stuff like this.

Edited by the author 8 years ago
United States

so maybe it's because i'm a runner of older games, but here's a better example to show u why it doesn't seem fair.

i'm a FFT speedrunner and turbo is globally banned unless it's the jp version (yea idk either) or it's accepted threw the whole community because at that point its considered pay to win. So if i have to drop another 60 bucks just to be competitive that's not fair to me. Why do i have to pay 60 bucks just be in the top 5 of speedrunners. case in point im basically paying to win and that's not fair to 90% of the RE7 runners just because one region of the game is faster. So im actually for either adding time to JP version or making the JP versions it's own category. I get where your coming from saying that it doesn't make a difference but in a game where every second matter 15 seconds is a huge deal. All i gotta say.

England

"unless it's the jp version (yea idk either)"

The Japanese speedrunning community has had historically different rules to the western side of things, their ruleset never banned turbo controllers.

"So if i have to drop another 60 bucks just to be competitive that's not fair to me. Why do i have to pay 60 bucks just be in the top 5 of speedrunners."

I continue to reject this as an argument, some versions are faster than others in a lot of games and you need to pay to acquire them, because they are retail products. Speedrunning is a measure of how fast you go and nothing else, time is a pretty decent indicator of skill, but not an absolute one and any attempt to obfusticate this for fairness sake misses the point of speedrunning. I'm solidly against adding time because it misrepresents the actual time, but I won't cry if I'm outvoted on it. I just don't agree.

I'm saying this mainly because RE7 appears to be a lot of first people's speedgame though, but this happens a lot in speedrunning with different versions being faster and needing to buy those because the timesave is either significant or hard-to-measure. Most games aren't gonna bend to accommodate like this one probably will.

Edited by the author 8 years ago
United States

most games that u have to pay to get the best version usually has some a difference categories. Games like zelda or hell any Nintendo game for that matter is easy to get your hands on a copy of jp version due to the fact of how easy it is to just soft mod your wii then get jp wad versions. On the other hand games where u can't do something like that usually has the categories separated due to the time differences.

Also jp doesn't run by different rules they follow the same rules as us the only reason jp doesn't have turbo banned is because it came with jp ps2 consoles, that's what i've heard at least. If jp followed different rules that means everyone around the world would have different rule sets. Jp is only different when it comes to time.

on one final note why this should be changed; it's just like gilgamesh said were pretty much gonna be locked to having to use the jp version just so we can be competitive and that comes back around to how turbo makes for an unfair advantage and pretty much forces u to pay to win. That's why jp versions of games are separated on most games

England

this thread is rapidly turning into "Punchy gets mad at people who don't run enough games to understand what they're talking about"

" On the other hand games where u can't do something like that usually has the categories separated due to the time differences. "

This isn't true. It varies by game but for the most part competition centers on the fastest version where applicable. Therefore buy faster version.

"Also jp doesn't run by different rules"

why are you attempting to contest me on a fact I just told you why turbo isn't banned for those games. The Japanese speedrun community developed seperate from the western one, so they came up with their own rules way back when and it hung around for a few games. There's a reason Paper Mario is timed at credits end and it's not because everyone thought it was a good idea, it's how Japanese timing rules worked.

"If jp followed different rules that means everyone around the world would have different rule sets."

This is so goddamn stupid I can't see straight. It's a history thing. The japanese had their own community. So they had their own rules. Other regions didn't develop their own communities independently, so they don't.

" just so we can be competitive and that comes back around to how turbo makes for an unfair advantage and pretty much forces u to pay to win."

i like the bit where I'm being ignored on how this is no different for 95% of all speedgames forever

"That's why jp versions of games are separated on most games"

They're not seperated on different leaderboards within the Resident Evil series itself let alone "most games". Having to buy a faster version to go fast and be competitive is nothing new. And adding time or changing categories still doesn't change the fact that you're slower than that fastest version, it's just a change of framing device to make people feel better about running on a slower version. It doesn't actually alter the reality of the situation. I think it's best to just lay it bare and make what you prefer to make of it rather than trying to actively misrepresent the timing to make it appear fair when it isn't. It's unfortunate, but it's also how it is. Games and speedrunning are funny like that.

Edited by the author 8 years ago
United States

you also know that the RE games don't run on the jp version they run on the Chinese version for 1, and 2 you can easily get the RE1, RE2, or RE3 chinese version on pc for free so u can be competitive. I don't think you get it, if your paying for anything that's no required it's considered pay to win and it makes for an unfair advantage. What's next were gonna allow console user to use equipment to use mouse and keyboard and we lock the WR behind more money? You get where im going with this yet? So again either adding 15 seconds to the jp version or making it a different category is only fair to the rest of us. If u wanna drop 60 bucks for it but be my guest but as a console runner im gonna fight for this reason just as everyone else that's a console runner on this forum

United Kingdom

In Japan a lot of the time they run by different rule sets, as Punchy said.

In a lot of games that go by RTA, Japanese runners usually do: POWER ON > After Credits, as their timing presets. Any game that has adopted this method as standard has adopted the Japanese timing method as their standard method. Western rules are usually some form of input on a menu that starts the run / first input in the run and so on, and they will end on the final hit of a boss / final input.

In Resident Evil, we go by in-game time, so those above rulesets are thrown out the window.

You also can't get the Chinese version of RE1 or RE2 for speedrunning, as they're both banned. RE1's version is heavily bugged, both in game speed and the timer, and RE2's doesn't work properly either, suffering from many graphical problems among other things. The only versions of the former that are allowed are (RE1: Japanese Version / Mediakite/PC-HOME or a reprint of either) / (RE2: PC Sourcenext). Only RE3 runs on the Chinese version.

Finally, worth noting boards would never be separated due to a certain fraction of players inability to afford the fastest version. If the Japanese PC version were easily able to be purchased by everyone (as in, an easy way to get it in-store), this issue would have already been dismissed. It's only because the Japanese Steam version is harder to acquire that this discussion is on-going, pretty much.

Edited by the author 8 years ago
Punchy and nemmy like this
Midi-Pyrénées, France

So if your time is slower because you don't run the fastest version it's not fair, but if Japanese runners time is affected because they do run the fastest version and we chose to penalize them for it it's fair? I don't think fairness work this way.

Also like said before the fact that you need a specific vesion of the game because it's the fastest is nothing new in the speedrunning world. Speedrunning is all about well being fast, so in order for that to be a thing you need to be prepare to have the fastest version of the game you choose to speedrun or accept the fact that you won't be in the top runners. I mean some games doesn't even separate console and pc version.

Sorry for my bad english guys, englando is hard.

Edited by the author 8 years ago
Punchy likes this
United States

were not "making them suffer" were just taking away there handicap so were on even playing field why is that hard to ask for? Playing on the fastest version isn't new yes that's true, so we gotta burn 60 bucks for another copy of a game just to be competitive? I don't see how that's fair to the rest of the world. You guys don't seem to understand that a money barrier in a in the speedrunning community is a real thing. People already paid there money for the copy and now ur telling me i have to put more money towards ANOTHER copy of the game just because the jp people got the fastest version? Has it sunk in yet? People don't just have 60 bucks to throw away to this hobby, hell some people probably spent there only spare cash they had to get this game and want to get into speedrunning this game and now ur telling them "sorry u gotta pay another 60 dollars to be competitive" Just because the jp version cuts 15 seconds on it and who know's what else maybe. So adding 15 seconds to the jp version isn't gonna hurt jp users it just takes the handicap they get away is all. Which makes it fair to everyone

England

"You guys don't seem to understand that a money barrier in a in the speedrunning community is a real thing"

You don't seem to understand that nobody really gives a fuck. Weird versions are faster. Deal with it. Your point is understood, it's just not relevant to how speedrunning works.

I don't see you complaining about NTSC being the most ran english version of Final Fantasy Tactics and every european has to pay extra to get a copy of that. It's only a problem with RE7 Console because YOU have to pay extra. Because the fastest version isn't the one you already happened to have. Sod off. You're not interested in fair, you just lack perspective.

Edited by the author 8 years ago
banopr, LerdVerdermert and 6 others like this
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