So I'm sure you've all heard about the ranting of players who can't make RazorJ whatsoever.

The mods are saying that its going to be banned because A) It's .5 of a block longer than a leap that Razor created on Skylands that was banned and was CLEARLY possible.

B ) "It's much harder to make it without shitty ping."

I've made it without "shitty ping" several times and I got 2 WRs with the leap. I hate the leap but if I can do it, it must be possible for everyone else to be able to make it.

Here's my suggestion:

If you guys aren't going to unban it (which is completely biased to people who are fed up with failing the leap every time and also biased to the people who can't make Non-OP leaps like ManiacJ with uncontrollable ping) then what I strongly recommend is to maybe start implementing an OP-Leap and Non-OP leap category to stop this hideous excuse known as "ping bias"

I have been coerced into unbanning the leap and Maxi's thoughts are pending, however I'll still going to reply to this because there's some issues I have with it

The issue is not that you can't make it without bad ping. I am aware that people can make it with good ping. However, from what I have seen for the past while, bad ping DOES at least have a positive impact on one's ability to make the OP leaps, or at least, make it more consistently. Unless you can disprove it, this is a true statement for the most part. That being said, we've seen it as an 'unfair' advantage to high ping runners for they will (most probably) be able to get more runs in because they can have a more consistent leap. Of course we would be biased towards the good pingers if they appear to have a disadvantage.The same thing was actually done in the Mirror's Edge community with minimal backlash, and that's part of why I ended up being OK with it (I was actually one who didn't want to ban leaps, but there was a LOT more hatred towards PlebJ).

The statement that ping helps can be disproven, and if you can disprove it, then the case will be over and all leaps will be unbanned. Even without proof this may be unbanned because again, I've been coerced. I am sorry if you think this was completely unjust, I did not mean to be intentionally biased, and if this remains a problem I will see it resolved

I am also aware that others leap can be said to have this bias. This was the major argument made in the argument I had that coerced me into wanting to unban. I do plan on unbanning the leap. Just don't say it's "biased", because our intention was exactly the opposite, and it just (apparently) didn't turn out that way.

Especially considering that I've also made the leap which means that argument which I've heard several times is out the window :/

Of course ping has positive impact on OP leaps. Have you even SEEN Razor or Tac's vids? They gain like .2 on OP leaps anyways. Which is why I gave up on Frost Run Leaper (I have a WR for it but its shit) because Tac could gain like .4 through OP leaping and I'd have to make up time with strats.

Also how do you want me to disprove it? I'm not an Australian and I can still make the leap consistently. zXMaxXz is also from the States, and we were in an MPS on EU a couple nights ago he was making the leap almost every time with 150 ping. If you want me to enable LabyMod and make the leap with average EU ping then so be it. As for now, lots of people would agree that the leap is removed because there are cry babies who can't get the OP leap timing correctly.

1. That is another good point. To be honest this game is actually just bullshit as a speedrun because too much of it is ping based. Hence, again, I am considering the unban

2. You can disprove it by demonstrating a method that works for a fairly sized group of low ping users for doing the leap that matches the consistency people with poor ping may have. That would work basically equally as well as manipulating your own ping as proof.

3. I've only seen Thunder's crybabying, and Thunder is Thunder; I would probably not be swayed by his opinion alone. I (and most likely Maxi) just agree(d) that there was an advantage to having high ping that was "unfair" to the general low ping people.

1. Yes. We all know that Aussies can make it like every fucking time because of their ping which is why speedrunning this game is bs.

2. Maybe an OP / Non - OP leap category is the answer, like the Exploit / NE was for ITJ. Think about it. I) It adds another creative aspect to the game, more catergories, and thus more opportunities. II) Low-Pingers don't have to suffer High-Pingers being able to perfect leaps. III) High-Pingers Can unleash their leaps and also compete with Low-Pingers who can perfect the leaps.

I) I wouldn't say it's "creative" because Non - OP leap category would just be 1. Restrain yourself or 2. Ban certain leaps.

II) Where's the line for a leap being "OP". A leap could be ALMOST OP, but not quite. That seems pretty vague

III) I actually don't understand this one

The simplest reasonable answer would be to unban all leaps and accept that this speedrun is just fucking garbage, or make this a speedrun page for a better game Kappa

Oh also I didn't see your 2nd reply.

On note to that, I'm glad to hear that its not just a bunch of sobbing from fucking kiddos that can't time the leap right swayed the choice. I guess when I just got on and realized I couldn't complete the Sandstorm sweep (all 6 WRs) I got pissed off about it since the leap is clearly possible.

There has to be some solution to this. If we are going to ban certain leaps because ping can affect the consistency, action also should be taken on High-Pingers (¤ahem¤ tac) that can gain almost half a second on OP-Leaps.

I'm glad that there is still room to discuss about the OP leaping. PS: Sorry for my fucking ranting about this.

It's fine that you're ranting, I like ranting too

I honestly don't think there's a solution. No matter what I do about this that isn't on a logistic standpoint, Maxi and I will be seen as biased towards x group of people. As a result of this, just leaving it out in the open is the only reasonable solution

So long-story-short are you saying you're probs gonna unban all leaps? Its just a block game honestly. If you can make the leap good for you. We shouldn't have to ban the leaps because of ping bias. If theres not a solution, then we should probs just undo the banned leaps

Probably. I will not do it if Maxi doesn't want them unbanned

People should just run Mirror's Edge tbh Kappa

sooo ping bias..... paris I haven't made it once... 0/21 attempts; im literally struggling to make it ONCE... If I had 200 ping tho...

And how do we know your ping again... I mean you are just claiming you had good ping ;l I struggle to get more than 90 ping on eu ;l

Flare, we're all hearing that same story over and over again. Anyway, it took me probs 50 tries to make it at least once then I started making it a lot more since I got the timing down. If you really want me to start enabling labymod even though I hate it I will show my ping. No guarantees it will be 90-100 but it will probably be in that 110-150 range which is generally average for EU ping. Also I am watching a lot of people in spec try to do the leap and their timing is wrong. Once you get the timing down its not too difficult.

Quite honestly, whenever my ping is in that 200ms+ ballpark range for leaps, I end up not being able to make it as much.

f3 also shows ping.

Paris, 1)My fr leaper wr has weaker leaps than your leaps on eu 2) U suck at leaps (especially the first and third) 3) U don't know leap strats 4) Half a second is a big exaggeration, it's max .2 total

looks like it must be time for me to bombard your FR WRs :D

Paris ur never gonna get the wr again Cus the only mjneplex server ATM is us, + use labymod

Necropost + They're unmerging.

Lock Thread, this has been discussed.

Locking thread because I'm hungry (dead thread open for necroposters like Tac)