Final Fantasy VIII Forum  /  Anouncement: Rule change regarding modifications on pc any%
  AhramanyuAhramanyu

As of January 19th 2016, we will not accept runs anymore for the top 10 of pc any% that were done on a modified version of the game. This includes replacing soundfiles, HD enhancements or any other changes of the original gamefiles.

Already accepted runs will not be touched in any way.

The reason for this decision was the fact that replacing the midi-soundfiles of FFVIII would shorten the speedrun slighty, which is something that we would like to avoid in the future. If you are a runner who cares about the competetive aspect of speedrunning, then we are sure that you would want to compete on even ground.

¤¤UPDATE¤¤

It is now allowed to use the ps1 quality audiofiles under Resources. The reason why those files are allowed, while RaW is not, is the way RaW works: RaW mod does NOT replace the audiofiles, but it disables them, resulting in audio related triggers happening early (as can be seen in Laguna Dream #1). Replacing the files directly with the suggested audio package will make every trigger work properly.

LivLiv likes this. 
  [user deleted]

This sounds good but if they shortened the speedrun slightly, then shouldn't those runs be removed as well to ensure accuracy and consistency? Not trying to pick a argument or anything (last time I asked a question about a game I currently don't run, mods got into their feelings)...

~ Token

 
  AhramanyuAhramanyu

The reason why we do not want to remove times is that we don't want to punish runners for rules that didn't exist back then. An active speedrun relys on an active community. We don't want to punch that community in the face for no reason.

 
  ElfonzyoElfonzyo

I'd have to disagree with this change. Playing this game without the Roses and Wine mod in my opinion makes the game unplayable. However, I do agree there should be a level field when competing for a top time. I think a fair compromise would be to add the time time that could be gained to the final time, but from what I understand that time is negligible at best.

What is in place as of now makes me not want to even learn the game, and I think it is a bad idea. Another idea would be to simply separate the categories if adding the time would be too arduous of a task.

 
  AhramanyuAhramanyu

We discussed several ways of dealing with that issue. Example solutions were:

- banning mods entirely
- adding extra-time to runs on modded versions
- only banning mods for the top times, which is currently active

The first option i disagreed on, because of similar arguments which you are currently bringing up: The midi-music is not popular at all, so it makes sense that people would want to mod it. Because of that, we left it to anyone who wants to run casually and for fun to decide what to do.

For the second option, while we currently only know of 1 spot where you can observe a noticeable time-difference, we can't be sure for the rest of the game. There are several loading screens/trigger that happen after a soundfile is played, and it is not out of the question that a modded version would save even more time.
Also, the "free time" that you usually get from having to wait till the soundfile is done playing is used for menuing, which would effectively change the route slightly, depending on wether you changed your gamefiles or not. Additionally, Roses&Wines is not the only way to change your music-files. In result, timing the exact amount of second you save with those mods proves as difficult.

The compromise we came down to is the rule that is currently in charge: Keeping the top times on equal ground, while giving more causal runners a bit more freedom. Unless a majority of the currently active runners were to complain about the rule with solid arguments, i won't see a reason for now to take it back.

Separating the leaderboards in modded and unmodded is an option that wasn't discussed, so i can only bring in my personal opinion here: There are several reasons why the game COULD (not should or will) be divided: SS and nonSS have slightly different routes, the english version has slightly different game-mechanics than all the other languages (Hero/Holy War can't miss), Windows 7 users get to play with higher FPS than Window 8 users. Those are actually more or less legit reasons to consider rule changes.
But to divide in "original gamefiles" and "switched out gamefiles"? I don't see it, but that is just me personally.

I hope you won't take this wall of text as something that was only directed in you. We obviously got feedback from several people, so i took your reply as an excuse to write a more detailed explanation on why we did what we did. I feel bad if that new rules is something that scares off new runners who are interested in the game, noone wants this community to grow more than i do. But rules exist to make sure that competitions like this are fair, and not to please single individuals.

I do hope that you reconsider your decision, if you really are interested in the game. The community is great, very helpful and supports each other wherever possible. It would be a shame if you decided to drop the topic because of such a detail.

 
  LivLiv

Does the run also shorten if, rather than using RaW, you just replaced the music files in the folder?

I know I used those music files (that are in the resources section) you put on here ages ago for my run.

 
  AhramanyuAhramanyu

I just checked my own VOD, where i replaced the soundfiles directly, and it doesn't seem like i am gaining free time there.

 
  LivLiv

So would using those sound files in resources still be okay, just not Mods (Like R&W) themselves? I'll never hit top 10 either way, so doesn't matter too much. Just worth knowing I guess.

I plan to run this again once FFIX comes out on Steam, so I'll probably reformat the files through Steam and reacquire the MIDI files again then.

 
  AhramanyuAhramanyu

To be honest, i would be happy if we could find a way to replace the soundfiles with a package that doesn't give you any time for free. But it would have to be 'THE one sound package', and not an anything further modified.

Difficullt. Currently, it seems easier to just demand original game files. I'd be willing to listen to more feedback on that topic.

 
  LivLiv

Yeah, saw the update in the 1st post and that seems to be the case.

Easiest way to see is after Laguna says:

"Julia sure is pretty..." in flashback #1.

If you have RaW, it immediately moves to the next scene, if not the scene will hang until the song finishes.

 
  AhramanyuAhramanyu

I tested more scenes, by comparing my own VOD with other VODs, with and without RaW. So far, i am confident.