good coaching @Miku

omg YES bro YES bro

GG BRO STEVIO COULD NEVER SUBMIT HIS RUN

Oh I see what you mean by ALL. I wouldn't give up on the idea of Any% even if it's not an official category Blurdecai. Honestly I wanna give a try to see how it feels sometime. As you said it, it would be Max% just without getting the paintjobs, and I assume would end once you finish the last race. I also think using DLC cars should be allowed as well. Once I get the DLC installed, I'll try it out !

Yeah I meant for changing the cruise settings before a run starts Aardappel, I think changing those settings should be done in the run itself. I'm not sure if I'd want to show both cutscenes before a run starts, since it would be a bit time consuming to reset, so I'd say don't allow skipping the city cutscene for the one you don't do first. For context, I have a save state on emulator that's a new profile for All Missions/Required Missions/Max% (with my settings like sound/license plate premade) so I can reset quickly. To add on, I was wondering what your stance was from restarting the run when your on the first level when you fail it, instead of making a new profile (or resetting the save state in my case). It's saved me quite a bit of time and should especially for original hardware runners. And with that said it would make sense to not allow skipping the other city's cutscene if you want to reset quickly.

I'd say only use vanilla cars even if you have DLC installed for non DLC runs Blurdecai, for DLC Checkpoint/Blitz/Max% runs you'd be allowed to use the DLC cars. Btw for Original Checkpoint/Blitz Races, you can use the CC, unless you want to start off using the Viper to start off learning those runs.

I think this is a fair compromise for the current status of MM3 runs on emulator, and yeah I imagine defining when the real run starts seems to be a lot more complicated due to where it can crash. I'd just hope in the near future xemu fixes the crash issue altogether. I'll resubmit my pbs for any crashes once the change gets made. Thanks for your input!

Personally I thought All Missions/Required Missions were the Any% variants for MM3 when I first looked at the categories. Defining what it actually means to "beat" MM3 is a bit weird because of how the game is structured, so that's why I thought there was no Any% to begin with. But I would be on board with this since when you unlock the CC, the game congratulates you for getting the car since you need all cars unlocked to get it. I'm not sure if there would be anything else in the game that could be defined as "beating MM3".

Also I can see how someone would not want to run Max% because of how slow some of the vehicles can be; I don't blame you for not wanting to drive a bus 4 times in a run LOL.

The only complication I can see is if there should be a separate category along side Any% for using the DLC. I personally want the leaderboards to be more condensed, and adding 2 more categories, which means adding 4 more categories for the original hardware/emulator split, would definitely bloat the leaderboards. I think by definition for Any% in most games, "beating the game as fast as possible" should mean anything is on the table, including using DLC. I can see the argument for wanting a separate category for using DLC however, but for the amount of categories we have now, I don't think we should add a DLC version if we add Any% to the leaderboards.

I made a video to show what cutscenes I was talking about for point 2 just for clarification sake. My bad if you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

I ran MM3 on my old pc back in October, it's honestly the same if not worse on my newer better PC lol (at least in terms of amount of crashes not lag)

I was going to put this in the other forum post, but I think this needs to be explained more in depth. Since starting runs back in October, I've experienced quite the amount of crashes throughout the months. This is mostly an emulator issue (for Xemu), so I can't speak for original hardware, however the same logic would apply for what I want to suggest regarding crashes.

I think that for any previous and future run, any run that has a crash should be retimed to get rid of that crash. I think it's unfair, and from my previous experience dealing with crashes, a bit demoralizing for your run to end by something you can't control that can happen randomly for no apparent reason. If this clause is allowed, defining how you retime it should be explained as well.

If a crash happens in a full game run then:

• The point where you started the level that you crashed on (the "press start" screen) to the point where you get back to that screen of the same level you were on (at the "press start" screen) should be taken out of the time of the run. Using an example from my 4:57:18 run, from 4:12:31 to 4:13:56 should be taken out of the run and retimed. There's 2 other crashes in the run, so those would have to be accounted for as well.

• During that segment of the run, I checked to see if the crash got rid of my paintjob progress. It did save my progress and I'm pretty sure that as long as you quit the race and the level select screen is loaded, your progress in the game saved. But let's say it didn't. I think how it should be retimed is that the player would do the previous level again (the one before the level that it crashed on), and from the start point of the previously played level (at the "press start" screen) to the point where they replay that level (at the "press start" screen), should be taken out as well. Hopefully that made sense.

• If the crash happens on the level select screen: I feel as if this has happened to me before once, but it's worth to note just in case. I think it should be retimed simply from the screen the crash happened on, to when the player gets back on to that same screen. This one might get complicated because of how the car selection section works (if it resets what car you would start on), so it's worth discussing further.

• The last thing I want to touch on is if the crash happens on a run with the DC easter egg activated. I think it should be treated the same as the first point I made, where the time where you get back to the "press start" screen wouldn't count against you, but as well as the time to get the DC easter egg reactivated. To add on for future reference, for when I do runs using the DC easter egg, I plan to reset the emulator (or the xbox if original hardware runs) at certain points to get rid of the easter egg so I can drive at normal speeds for certain levels. In my opinion resetting the xbox/emulator shouldn't be treated as a crash since the player is intentionally doing it, and as such should be timed differently (normally). (I only say differently because I would like the xbox/emulator leaderboards to be combined in favor for load times removed/IGT timer, but that's a discussion for another day :) )

I don't see Xemu getting fixed anytime soon, so I think this is a good middle ground to help current and future players enjoy running the game without the dread and annoyance of a run ending to a crash. If this clause is allowed, I will go out of my way to look for any of my previous runs that have crashes and retime them appropriately. I think the only other run that wasn't mine was from AndroidFanatic's All Required Paris Missions run just to note. Give any thoughts if you have some!

Hey all! I just wanted to share some ideas regarding the rules for full game speedruns:

1. Should we be able to change the settings for cruise mode before we do Max% run?

It didn't really occur to me until a few days after I completed my latest Max% run, but I do change my settings like my sound (and potentially the language in future), as well as my license plate. The sound and license plate doesn't change the run, however since changing the cruise settings actively changes how the cruise part of the speedrun plays, I think it should be left to its default settings that a new save gives you.

2. Should we pre get rid of the cutscenes for Paris and DC Undercover (both the black screen and the dialogue boxes) for All Missions/All Required Missions/Max%?

It doesn't save much time off the speedruns to prepare a file for these runs, however I thought it was worth mentioning after I thought of the first question. If not allowed, the first cutscene/dialogue skip of whatever city you choose to do first would be the only one skipped as the current runs imply with starting each run from the "press start" screen.

3. Is having DLC on a non DLC run allowed even though you yourself are not using the DLC?

This was a question brought up by Blurdecai since he runs the game with DLC installed. In checkpoint races your opponents pick a class of car based off the car you choose to do the race in, and with DLC installed they get to choose DLC cars in the same class. Since you don't get to choose what they choose, I think having DLC installed for non DLC runs should be allowed as it doesn't effect how you play all too much. This would only effect All Checkpoint Races and Max%, and in my opinion in a negative way since you have to scroll through more cars, at least for Max%.

late reply but pixel is so poggers bro

Coming to see how this IL looked, did not expect to be blasted with Muzz, respect

I have some questions regarding the timing of Undercover ILs

For all of the Undercover ILs, I assume we get the time from the last frame the IGT is on screen, since it doesn't give you a time at the end of the level. Also, for levels that add time to the in game timer (ex: Prank Calls), how do we approach the timing? I suppose we do the math, though I'm not sure if each level that does this adds the same amount of time. I'll be willing to create a guide to show how to calculate it depending on how those ILs get timed

One other thing, is teleporting at the end of an IL allowed? Since teleporting gives you a black screen for a little bit, it blocks out the IGT while you complete the level and you won't know what the actual time is from the last frame. I only ask this because I found some teleporting tech that allows you to complete levels faster using it; teleporting on a red space instead of braking. You can do it in Checkpoint and Blitz races as well, but I don't think it matters since those give you the time at the end of each race.

No problem, glad to have helped!

From my testing, it does not effect the timer, which is weird since everything else in the game including the backgrounds of the menus move faster. So ILs would change if you decide to allow it. I do agree that since its intentional, that it should be allowed in runs. To avoid more category splits, I think it should be a variable that can be checked if it was used or not, but making it to where it's still the same category. The Mario Wonder leaderboards have something like that (showing if yoshi/nabbit is used) if you need an example. I also made a video showing the comparisons in the timer, and some vehicle comparisons as well. From using the Koenigsegg CC as shown in the video, it is really hard to control, you glitch through objects more often that you wouldn't normally, you sometimes get stuck in the ground at really high speeds, and you damage out really easily (not sure if it was because I kept crashing into objects more or if you get damaged more easily with the easter egg on). So in my opinion, it should be allowed because you need to be really really skilled to use it in any run, and would have to strategically be use it in places where it would be most optimal. If it does get added, the rules should reflect that, mostly in terms of how you start. It would be the same idea, timing would start on any loading screen start, since if you decide to get the easter egg first you would start on DC cruise first. That's just my opinion though but I hope it gave a better perspective on how you want to precede with this discovery.

Also in regards to the Undercover ILs, it would be the last thing to add to the level leaderboards to have the game's leaderboard fully fleshed out. Unless you wanna add another category or even paintjob ILs LOL, I'm pretty sure that would be the last thing to add on

Hello again, I just finished my first Max% run recently! (currently uploading lol) Since I've practically done every category (minus the recently added DLC categories), I'm going to be moving on to finding better routes and strats for every level and routing Max% more effectively. With that in mind, there doesn't seem to be a way to submit Undercover Job ILs, which looks like to be the last missing thing from the leaderboards.

The other thing I wanted to mention was that I discovered that there are 2 easter eggs in MM3 that I never knew about! One of which has the potential to change all of the speedrun categories. In the DC map, if you go to the Lincoln Memorial and look up towards it for a bit, the game puts on an old timey filter, but most importantly it speeds up the game SIGNIFICANTLY. Not just the car, but the entire game. From my testing, it continues working even if you exit out of the map and go into another race, taking off the filter however, which is definitely not a big deal lol. The effect goes away if you reset the console. My questions regard on how this could effect all the speedruns, both full game and ILs, since it's such a significant gameplay "advantage". I only put quotes since it's really hard to control especially with the fastest cars in the game. I'm not sure if it should be it's own category variable since it changes so much, or if it should be banned. However I will argue that it could be used in niche cases where you're controlling really slow cars and then be "turned off" by resetting the console, which can add more depth to the speedruns. You could theoretically just turn it on immediately and play every level like that for the most optimal run, but honestly I don't see that happening anytime soon. Let me know your thoughts!

Also I left the video where I found the easter egg to show how it looks, but I also recommend watching it full it's great!

just when I thought I could complete all the categories LOL

Oh wow it's like 8 seconds faster, thanks for letting me know!

I just started running the game recently and wanted to know why the leaderboards are separated by original hardware and emulator. From what I've seen using xemu, it only has visual glitches with textures not loading and somewhat common crashes, but other than that the game seems to run completely fine. Just wanna hear the justification between the split leaderboards that's all!