I know for Any%, reseting for a good start is ideal. However, would that be allowed for a Full Game speedrun? Let's say I start run 1, quick-reset for a good start, finish, and show IGT. Then, I start the next clan's run and reset until I get a good run there, and show IGT, etc.? Would the reseting count towards the total time?

Or would I need to reset the first clan's run (for an ideal start of course) and then once I've got a good run there, I just have to power through with whatever the game gives me on each subsequent run for the other clans, no reseting (unless I lose, but that's counted towards my total time)?

I'm just trying to get a clear picture of how a run like this would look, and unfortunately there's no video to watch and the rules are a little ambiguous.

Great question, and I should have been a bit more clear on it. My intention was to have the run be basically like RTA but using the IGT has a better timing system. I didn't really think about resetting the start of a run and how that would affect time. So there would be basically 2 options to go about this in my head.

1. To accumulate all the reset times before the run starts. For example, when you start a run, and then you reset because you didn't get the starter cards that you want, when you open up the menu to reset, you can see the IGT. So, for every reset, I could add on the time displayed (probably usually about 3-5s I would assume) and then add that on at the end of the clan's run, and state how much time was added per legion in the comment section under the run.

OR

2. Not count the times on the reset and just go with the finished run's IGT. But instead of having someone sit there for several minutes resetting each clan until they get a perfect start, you would have the allowed 2 minutes before starting the run to be able to get that best start.

I think in spirit of speedrunning, I think the first option is the best option, as you need to play to the best of your ability to be able to get WR (even tho this game has a low player count). But, I'm also completely fine with the second option, or any other suggestions to be given. I'll fix the rulesets to be more concise once a decision is made.

I think the first option would be the best. There would be some incentive to reset to get a decent start for each run but also a drive to just push forward to not waste too much time. It's also interesting to see what a player can do with what they're given, and just trying their best, even with subpar starting cards. I'd be curious about how much time it's worth reseting for a good unit, due to how much time will be lost by not having it.

I know I haven't submitted any runs here, so my opinion may not have as much weight, but I did 100% MT1 and 2 and love the games a lot. I've also enjoyed speedrunning (both watching and participating).

Alright, Ill update the rules to state that anytime you reset a run during a full game run will add the IGT to the end of that clan's IGT except for the first clan of the run. Thank you for bringing this to my attention

I'm curious how you and others feel about the use of a macro for restarting runs, mainly for the Full Game category. Both my Steam Deck and laptop have a macro I've created where I can press a single button and open the menu followed by pressing the reset run button. I only use this for getting a new run started, saving some wrist pain on my laptop and saving effort on the controller.

In a single run, this macro does not effect my time or run as it's only used for starting the run, not to gain an advantage within the run. However, I see that it could be seen as cheating when doing a Full Game run (whenever I get to that point), given what we discussed about restarting runs being part of the time. That being said, if we want to go with your suggestion of

"So, for every reset, I could add on the time displayed (probably usually about 3-5s I would assume) and then add that on at the end of the clan's run, and state how much time was added per legion in the comment section under the run."

I think we could say every reset adds X time to that clan's run and whether someone uses a macro to reset in 1 second or manually does it in 2 seconds+, it will always add X time per reset. That X should be considered based on load times and reasonable time to reset by players, but that's another discussion.

Also, if there's something I'm not seeing about using my macros for starting single runs, please let me know. I certainly don't want to gain an unfair advantage, however I also don't like a single repetitive motion when it's not a part of the speedrun itself.

I would say that, since all runs are IGT, using a Macro to reset runs for single clan runs should be fine. For doing full game runs, I would say using a macro wouldn't be allowed, as that creates an unfair advantage. If we get more runners, I'll consider using a static time addition per reset for full game runs, but as for right now, I'll keep it at the adding on what the IGT displays before resetting the run.

To the macros: that makes perfect sense. The only reason it was even a consideration for the Full Game was your comment about adding a set time for each reset. But it sounds like I misunderstood what you meant.

I did have a couple thoughts on this run. Currently as it stands, it seems like it'll be 5 (or 10) less-than-ideal-single runs, all bunched together. I say less than ideal, as you can't hope for the absolute best like Any%, and you really need your runs to stay alive, so you'll play a little more careful. This is all a presumption based on how I'm planning it out for myself. It would likely be all Hellhorned or Lazarus as a primary or secondary clan (Hellhorned would be more durable, but Lazarus is faster with TSA), same pyre every time, and basically the same thing over and over. This honestly seems boring to play and watch.

I watched a MT1 Full Game run and saw that there's a rule stating:

You MUST use each clan once as a primary and once as a secondary during your runs.

I wonder if this would be something worth considering for Full Game to bring a bit more strategy and thought into it. This would certainly change it from, "same strategy every time", to "What combos will work well together and what pieces am I looking for on THIS run?" I know there's a lot more clans to work with in MT2, and i'm not sure how it would work with the split Full Game (only MT1 or only MT2 clans), but perhaps it could be tweaked to say:

"You may only use each clan once as a primary and once as a secondary during your runs."

For the split Full Game runs, that'd allow for mixing and matching between MT1/2 clans but still only allow a clan once per run. And for the full Full Game (all 10), that'd be interesting to see what would be the best combos to use.

If this idea is considered, I think we should take into account Wurmkin and Railforged as either allowing them (kind of substitutes for less than ideal clans), or banning them (since not everyone will have the paid-DLC for Railforged, and consistency and fairness may be a factor).

I originally considered the idea of what we had for MT1 where you have to use each clan once as a primary and a secondary clan, but ultimately decided not to go with it. I personally found that it was super constrictive in MT1 and kind of made full game a bit too difficult to run only being allowed the one clan for primary and secondary, just allowing a lot less opportunities.

With MT1 tho, there's the Sketches + Shadowsiege combo (S+S for short), where you would summon 5 minions in the middle floor, and then you get a massive Shadowsiege (200/150) and hopefully equipped with Quick + Multistrike. This literally destroyed the any% unseeded/seeded for MT1 that I personally pushed for just any% which allowed S+S and then on a per-clan basis, you ban Shadowsiege and then just roll with the best combo out there. For Full Game runs, your first run would be just rolling for S+S with Umbra as your Primary/Secondary and then the slowest Secondary/Primary clan out there, thus eliminating Umbra and what it could bring.

Now, we have the issue with Test Subject Alpha (TSA) where you want that minion in your starting deck and then you can just basically run through the entire game with it, giving it buffs and such (mainly multistrike). Since watching your runs, I've been thinking about doing the same thing for MT2, where we ban TSA in any% and just make it one run using TSA and then all other clans just use the best combo available to them that isn't TSA.

But the massive difference between S+S and TSA is that you cannot get Shadowsiege in your starting hand, and you can get TSA in your starting hand, AND Shadowsiege is too expensive to play until you upgrade your mana (which is why you needed Sketches), meanwhile TSA is playable during Deployment phase. In full game runs, doing S+S would be too slow to roll Sketches into Shadowsiege for every single clan, even tho it was a few minutes faster than doing other combos. But, TSA is strictly faster to just reroll for until you get him than what any other combo would be for any other clan.

I'll add Wurmkin and Railforged any% seeded/unseeded categories. For full game, I'll probably bring back the rule where you have to use each clan once as a primary and second clan, since TSA brings in too many issues, even though I find it to be a bit restrictive, it's just probably for the best. For TSA, if you're fine with it, I'll probably just move all your runs with TSA into a new category just called "any% TSA" or something, and then whatever your fastest time is will be the standing WR. Since it is part of the game, and the fastest way to beat it, even tho it's just a scummy way like we had with S+S, and it outshines all combos that other clans can have.

Honestly, I'm fine with just a single Any% category, for reasons I'll put below. Though I'm not sure if "Any% TSA" is the right way to do it. While TSA certainly seems like the fastest, and I can't theorize anything else better, there could be something else that's found. It also seems odd for a speedrunning group to say, "The fastest strategy is it's own category, and the second fastest will be their own category." Especially when it's essentially the same run. It's not like a skip or glitch is found that makes it a brand new category or anything. We'll end up with a very similar problem (though not quite as easy to pull off) with Demon Fiend.

That being said, after doing all 10 clans, just sending TSA the whole time, it felt like having the 10 clans as separate categories was a little repetitive. It also makes it difficult to see what the actual fastest time for the game is, and track that history.

I definitely can see where it feels too restrictive making the player use each clan once, and perhaps there's a middle ground somewhere. But after doing the 10 clans, I'm turned off from wanting to run Full Game just to do 10 back-to-back TSA runs. Thinking about what clan combos would work well to have fast and reliable runs though, that sounds fairly interesting.

Also, I apologize if it seems like I'm coming in as a new runner and just wanting to change everything up. I'm definitely not wanting to go against the grain or devalue any runs. I simply wanted to give my thoughts after doing several runs and see if others felt the same way. If the consensus is to keep everything the same, I'm perfectly fine with that.

You're absolutely fine suggesting stuff. This game I've definitely haven't put much effort into, knowing it wouldn't be a popular game, and because I've been incredibly busy irl. I've moderated, or helped moderated, a ton of games (mainly Resident Evil) and trust me, you've been the most civil person I've talked to when discussing rules and such. Plus, I'm always open to hear what others think about rules, and since this hasn't had a ton of runners, nothing is really solidified as of right now. If anything else pops up, feel free to mention it