Hey All!

I wanted to bring up a discussion here on the board. It looks like the current top runs of this game utilize a save state system which normally wouldn't be accepted I think. Its cool that the way RNG could be set was figured out, but I believe a run that is started using a save state should potentially be more of a side category vs the main category of the game.

I want to maybe recommend creating a different category if we want to start from a specific seed, but the main category should just be normal starting the game fresh or if there is an attempt to set up RNG the timing should start once the first run goes, and the timer would continue to run from that point, so would include the first game start, then the RNG setup, then the second game start.

I know this isn't a very active board but let me know what everyone thinks

I like the addition of seed exploration to the game. I'd rather not split it off as a category, as it feels within the spirit of playing the game - I doubt folks playing on the original 7800 hit reset on their console rather than just tapping the action button to return to the title screen to play again. Also, the fact there is a power-up you never see in the power-on seed seems to support this as an "as-intended" form of play.

The save state element does bug me a bit, but in this case it's a proxy for "play the game in a certain way before starting your run". There are other games that have that element (minus save states) cooked into the board:

• Vegas Stakes - Vegas Adventure: You start a game, play until you get a lotto ticket, save and quit, and then start a new game, starting the timer at that point. You then proceed to win the lotto due to faulty game logic carrying over the old game state into the new game.

• Chip 'N Dale - the demo RNG lock trick

My 2c. Thanks for bringing this up Apollo!

The problem this game has in regards to speedrunning is that it has one particular power-up that allows you to skip the whole level if you get it. This means you save 30 secs or even a minute of what a regular run would be just by picking it up. The thing is that said power-up doesn't appear in the very first seed when you boot up the game. And even before my runs, baldnate and substylee were optimized enough where the only way to beat them was getting the power-up.

This implies 2 things:

1. As wintery_mix pointed out, the game is clearly intended to be replayed, just like arcade games with hard difficulties.

2. Runs that start on the first seed won't be able to beat current top runs.

As for savestates, a run starting from the first seed until you find a good one wouldn't work because for some seeds you might have to play the game 3 or 4 times, although the last seed would be the fastest if you were timing it alone, like we're doing right now. And in that sense, a run that does 2 loops would be faster than one that does it in 4, but the 4th is the fastest. Like it would be too convoluted and even a bit tedious to run.

I personally think the seed search makes the speedrun a bit more unique as an additional way of routing. I could add a category for the first seed, but honestly this is a small and not very active leaderboard, so unless someone wants to run it I won't add it for now.