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United Statesmontypap4 years ago

After reading a lot of discussion on the Discord about this (everyone feel free to join and say your thoughts there if you don't want to here) I want to quickly sum up my current thoughts.

I agree with drinkingcarrots and others for the most part that free scroll should be banned and boards split into left click and mouse wheel (with the few existing runs that are a different click type being put in here I guess, to be fair to the left click players?)

I do not think standard mouse wheel should be banned because that would delete a lot of runs and would also get rid of a lot of users that want to run the game like that, I think a more fair solution for everyone would be splitting it into 2 seperate leaderboards. Similar to left click it is very common hardware (pretty much standard on any modern mouse) and requires a similar amount of effort and dedication as left click to spin it a few times a second over the course of a run.

Also if a run seems too good (in left click or wheel) I think it should require a good amount of proof such as an on screen mouse tracker like mousotron AND microphone OR webcam to help prevent fake runs or simply people breaking the rules (using free scroll if they become banned, or using wheel but claiming left click etc)

United Statesmontypap4 years ago

No, the runs can be played on any version

United Statesmontypap4 years ago

As I mentioned earlier, scroll wheel and mouse keys already do not correspond to a body movement and they are allowed... standard scroll wheel can give dozens-hundreds of clicks per motion, mouse keys can give two.

Free scroll does make a sound, you can also very clearly here when the wheel starts (just like normal mouse wheel)

United Statesmontypap4 years ago

Clicking I get around 8 per second, probably more like 7 sustained. Standard scroll wheel I can get a pretty consistent 100. Also, everyone doesn't have a scroll wheel, I know people that just use a laptop/touchpad. I also think free scroll is a lot more common than you think, Logitech has been selling multiple models for over a decade, I have seen them in offices, and they have become pretty popular due to certain games benefiting from them and streamers using them. Number 7 best selling mouse on amazon is free scroll.

Most of that is anecdotal, which is why I was bringing up the click stats.

100cps and 140cps is not a huge difference when you consider the percentage increase, as I mentioned there is a bigger percentage difference between 7cps and 10cps than 100cps and 140cps. There is also a bigger percentage difference between standard mouse wheel and left click than free scroll and standard scroll.

To sum up my thoughts:

If people think free scroll should not be allowed because it is "too fast" then I think the true culprit would be scroll wheel itself, being 12x to 6x as fast standard click depending what numbers you use, while free scroll is only 1.4x to 2.8x as fast as scroll depending what numbers you use (the 6x and 2.8x using dha's scroll wheel estimate instead of mine.) Comparing between click types, scroll wheel is much more dominant over left click than free scroll would be over standard scroll.

If people think free scroll should not be allowed because not everyone has one/not everyone wants to use one, the same could be said for standard scroll wheel and that is exactly why we can filter leaderboard by click type and compete that way. I would be fine with putting free scroll in its own click type. I think it would be great to see what other people that want to compete with free scroll can do, without having an impact on existing left click/scroll wheel competition.

United Statesmontypap4 years ago

I don't think the game has a defined purpose, other than maybe getting cookies.

If you mean defeats the purpose of the game as in makes it way easier than intended, I think the problem is with scroll wheel then, not free scroll wheel. Based on my testing, normal scroll wheel is ~12x faster than standard left click, and free scroll is not even 1.5x faster than normal scroll wheel.

If we already allow clicking methods that let you click ~100 times a second, completely dominating traditional left click, I don't see why a method that lets you click ~140 times a second is a problem at all. I wouldn't mind it being moved to a seperate free scroll click type or the "other" click type, but since the speed is rather close to traditional mouse wheel I don't know if that is necessary (there would be a bigger difference between someone that clicks 7 times a second vs someone that clicks 10 times a second... would seem silly to split those into different categories)

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United Statesmontypap4 years ago

I have not seen the "every click must correspond to a body movement" mentioned before, I do not think that is true for this game or else scroll wheels wouldn't be allowed (dozens-hundreds of clicks for a single movement) and mousekeys would not be allowed (1 keypress is 2 clicks)

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