Unfortunately, this is something that should be noted for anyone who cares about this speedrun. Here are the possible ways to play the game that I'm aware of:

• Disc in PS2 (several hardware variations, disc speed variations)
• Disc in backwards-compatible PS3
• Disc in XBox
• Disc in Gamecube
• Disc in backwards-compatible Wii
• Played off hard drive in fat PS2
• Played off hard drive in XBox
• Played off external hard drive on Wii
• Played off external hard drive on hacked Wii U?
• Played off microSD card through memory card port of PS2 via MC2SIO?
• Played through ethernet port on PS2 (others?) via something like RetroNAS?

I don't think I care enough to do much testing, but I just recently hacked my XBox and noticed the load times off that hard drive were significantly faster than I was used to with my PS2HDD (1-2s vs 4-5s). I had been using a microSD-to-IDE adapter with my PS2HDD and playing in widescreen which are two variables that can be changed to possibly improve PS2 loads. XBox doesn't seem to have widescreen mode and I was using a 2TB SATA HDD.

xbox loads for reference:

This isn't a new discovery, my man. People "back in the day" were able to figure out the game was easier on Easy. It's fun to play the same version as everyone else for the sake of accessibility, competition, etc.

It's disingenuous to just say there's "9 categories." There's two single-player modes and a co-op mode. 90+% of the runs in each of those modes play the same difficulty.

I honestly don't know how sub-categories work, but that sounds like the right type of solution to me. Doesn't invalidate non-US runs, but promotes US as the standard. Glad to see Seedy's on board with it as well.

As y'all probably know, the US version only has one difficulty setting, while JP has three. This hasn't really been an issue for the leaderboards since nearly everyone runs US. However, a JP Easy IL was just submitted for Max Lvl 5 and it's faster than the only other run which was on US.

When you look at the leaderboard for Max Lvl 5, all the info is there to show they were on different difficulties: https://www.speedrun.com/goof_troop/Level_5#Max

but if you look at the All Levels view for ILs, it only shows the fastest ones: https://www.speedrun.com/goof_troop/individual_levels

So, question is if y'all care about this. Seedy obviously didn't do anything wrong - it's a perfectly valid run and he can run whatever difficulty he wants - but if JP Easy and US runs are mixed together, it becomes necessary to run JP Easy to rank near the top. This will inevitably be the case for full game runs as well.

10k point glitch summary: The player is awarded tank bux each time the player reaches a milestone of 10,000 points. Additionally, if a player runs out of tank bux and dies, the level ends and the player fails. However, if the player runs out of tank bux, dies, then is awarded additional tank bux before the failure screen appears, the player will instead pass the level.

Example:

Implications for RTA: Most notably, this offers an opportunity to cut minutes off the time for Assault on SF. Rather than waiting the full 9 minutes for the level to end, the player can end the level early. It will be possible to end other levels early in RTA, but it doesn't seem possible to skip to the end entirely. For this reason, it doesn't seem necessary to add any rules or categories for RTA.

Implications for the IL leaderboard: An important fact on this matter is that points and tank bux carry over from level to level. Entering a level from the Level Select menu starts the player(s) with 0 points and 30 tank bux total. Entering a level from Campaign mode allows the player to enter a level with any amount of points or tank bux, based on how many the player has accrued in the game up to that point. If a player enters a level with 9,975 points, the player only needs to gain 25 points to abuse the glitch, whereas a player entering from level select would need to gain all 10,000.

Possibilities:

1. No rules regarding starting criteria for an IL. Likely result: the strategy for nearly every level would be to manipulate the point total on the level before it so that the player enters the IL with 9,975 points, then abuse the glitch. Cons: Not only is this totally uninteresting, but the player is spending time performing tasks necessary for achieving the time, but that time is not being counted against the timer, similar to New Game+.

2. Strictly require the player to begin the level with 0 points and 30 tank bux (i.e. Require the player to enter an IL via Level Select). Likely result: The strats for most existing ILs would be unaffected. At least one IL would benefit from still being able to abuse the 10k point glitch.

However, cons: If a player achieves an IL WR during an RTA run, it would be disqualified, regardless of whether or not the player took advantage of the extra tank bux or points. e.g., if a player tied the solo WR for Alcatraz at the end of an RTA by driving straight to the end and killing Cassandra. Additionally, this rule would disqualify some existing co-op ILs which require more than 30 total tank bux. e.g., Champs Elysees and Alcatraz, where the current strats require a Goliath and a tank worth more than the remaining 5 tank bux. If the game provided 30 tank bux each, it wouldn't be a problem, but it only provides 30 total.

3. The player is not forbidden from entering with additional tank bux or points, as long as they aren't used by the player to gain an advantage. (e.g., if you get the WR on Alcatraz in an RTA without abusing the 10k point glitch or using more than 30 tank bux, then it's valid). Likely result & cons: IL records during RTA are no longer unnecessarily disqualified, but the problem of co-op only being able to use 30 tank bux total still remains.

4. Allow players to use as many tank bux as they want, but if their IL run abuses the 10k points glitch, the player must have begun the level with 0 points. Likely result: Assault and possibly a couple other levels benefit from the glitch. No IL runs benefit from untimed gameplay, such as racking up points before entering a level. Co-op runners are allowed to use the tanks of their choosing, rather than being limited to 30 tank bux. Cons: allowing players to use accrued tank bux but forbidding them from using accrued points is somewhat arbitrary. Rule #2 is much cleaner and consistent in this regard.

Hopefully this is a fair assessment of the options and their pros & cons. Personally, I can't stand overly-complicated leaderboards and arbitrary rules, but I do see this as a very grey area and I would prioritize fun, interesting, diverse runs over boring, identical, loophole-type runs with lower numbers.

This community is very small as of now and may likely stay that way. After chatting with lolaway, lazycomit and AC, I think we're all in agreement #4 is the way to go. I hope anyone new to this game can take the time to read this and understand why the rule exists. If not, feel free to share your thoughts here.

Unfortunately, I have not yet moved into a new place, so I don't think I'll have a gaming/streaming setup ready for the marathon. Sorry my dude.

First off, cool weird find and thank you for sharing it here. This kind of manipulation is always interesting.

That said, I'd like to get more opinions from people invested in the game before I verify/reject any runs that include this. I'll try to give a comprehensive rundown of the options this presents.

1. Allow this exploit without changing the category rules or timing methods This would essentially keep everything the same (for any%, Deathless would be clarified to All Levels), but everyone could just skip level 2 and cut their time by ~70 seconds. The setup required for the exploit would not be considered "part of the run".

2. Allow this exploit, but change the timing method to "power on" and TASers use. This would fall in line with the "anything goes" mentality of any%. You'd be allowed to set up the exploit, but that setup would count against your time. Problems with this: (a) I'm pretty sure the time it takes to set up the exploit is longer than the time it takes to beat level 2 and (b) all runs currently on the leaderboards would need to be re-timed, which would either be impossible (VOD doesn't begin with power on) or unfair (runner didn't mash through the menus because they weren't part of the timing). Save-states & fast-forwarding in an emulator would obviously not be allowed.

3. Some form of new category This would allow people who want to use it to use it, but would keep it separate from other runs. I'm personally opposed to this, just because we would end up with three categories that are all very similar to each other. This would also just lead to another debate of which category is truly "any%".

4. Disallow pre-run exploits like this Ban it, essentially.

I'm pretty strongly opposed to options 2 & 3 for the reasons I stated. I'm also opposed to option 1 because (a) it wastes the runners' time, (b) it doesn't really add anything cool/enjoyable/entertaining to the timed run itself for a viewer, and (c) the "time savings" would really only be an artificial product of the timing method.

So, I'd support banning this, but I'm open to counter-arguments. I just don't think the "just go fast" excuse applies here.

Sorry, didn't see that this til now. I still have it, so you can either DM me your address and I'll mail it to ya, or hold off until the next NASA/whatever we both attend.

If you don't like either of those options, you can find em for less than $3 on ebay. Just let me know.

Oh man, you mean this section, for example? https://streamable.com/n6xx - when the sprite is just kinda hanging there? If so, I've never thought about that being a variable.

And you're sure the time difference is related to loading times rather than whatever was causing the slow orbs? (sorry for being out of the loop, but I missed that find as well)

Just to clarify for those of us that weren't in the discord - is this trying to eliminate the randomness of the fast/slow orbs at the checkpoints? When you say "before the start of a level" - is that referring to the entire overworld area where you choose the level? (if so, that would remove the "finish as far to the right as possible" strategy from the first boss)

Added a Nintendo DS Lite charger. It was found in my room (230) but it apparently doesn't belong to any of us (cfb, lurk, cook)

NOTE: Due to protection of routes, the videos for this category will not be made public, as it includes challenges and bonus levels, and you can't see other people's replays ingame either.

For those unfamiliar to speedruns of this game, can you explain why this is in place for the 100% and All Levels+ categories? What are the routes being protected from?

_

edit: threads locked now, but I just wanna say, based solely on this thread, y'all were pretty cool about it. Gave your reasoning, listened to the other side, talked it over and were willing to change it in the end. Good on ya.

Cook's everdrive was recovered. I have the rest of the items. I'll be checking this thread, but you can tweet at me as well to make sure I know I have your item.

The water fountain in the lobby looks like it has push-bars on the front and sides, but only the bar on the front actually makes water come out. The so-called push-bars on the sides are purely cosmetic. Very frustrating.

Found

• Phillips in-ear earbuds

• white micro-usb cable

• HDMI cable

• RCA audio splitter

• 3.5mm extension cable

• DVI cable

• green board game hexagon things (withhelde?)

• Sony headphones (claimed, Messenger)

• N64 (claimed, Moofin)

• Nintendo DS Lite charger (Lurk)

• PlayStation (1/2) composite cable (claimed, AlecK47)

Run: Disney's Aladdin (Genesis)

Required equipment: Sega Genesis, Game, Controller, CRT

Equipment I will bring: Game & Controller. I can bring a model 2 system if necessary.

Dates i will be attending: May 19th-24th

Can the marathon use my equipment for other runs: Yes

~

Run: BattleTanx: Global Assault (N64)

Required equipment: N64, Game, Controller, CRT

Equipment I will bring: Game & Controller. I can bring a system if necessary.

Dates i will be attending: May 19th-24th

Can the marathon use my equipment for other runs: Yes, but not controller.

Do we still need a PEXHDCAP or is a different capture method in place?

Also, just want to be sure everything you're counting on from other people is getting there on time. For example, I can still bring the PEXHDCAP and component splitter, but I'm not getting into Chicago O'Hare until an hour and a half before the marathon starts.

For real though, is anyone lined up to program the layouts for the streaming software?

I'll be paying cash at the event as well.

edit: I lied. sent.

Anything in place for putting the layouts together? As of now, we just have the example images.

I don't know the best way of doing it for the streaming software, but i'll work with whoever does, if were using my template