Comments
Irelandentrpntr1 year ago

(cross-post from the original GSC Category Extensions forums)

Call me a romantic, but I think of Category Extensions not just as a home for extra leaderboards, but as a place where we can foster all the fun aspects of Pokémon speedrunning. In my ideal world, Category Extensions will serve to better the community in many different fashions. Here are just a handful of ideas of what I think Category Extensions could (and should) be:

We'll have a handful of shorter, simpler, and less serious categories mixed in with the others. We should aspire to make it easier to capture potential new runners from an audience who might otherwise be hesitant about getting into Pokémon speedrunning. Some examples: Beat Lance (for a shorter run than Glitchless), Manipless and Gold Any% No Save Corruption (for more accessible categories for a first Pokémon run). We can add other category ideas along these lines, as they come up.

Category extensions allow us to explore the games we love in ways the official leaderboards don't allow for, free of judgment. Do you want to use a different main poke (Alt Main Pokes), use a bunch of different Pokémon (Baton Pass), catch all of the Pokémon (Catch 'Em All), or just relive getting rekt at Battle Tower like you did as a kid (er, that might just be me)? Categories that add freshness and variety and provide new ways to make us nostalgic for these games are perfect fits for Category Extensions.

Routing is an extremely enjoyable aspect to many involved in Pokémon speedrunning, but one that's at a stale point for a lot of official leaderboard categories. Category Extensions provide a massive new terrain for routing creativity and fun. Any category with real, appreciable, original routing is something that will have a place here. (The fun is already getting started: Alt Main Pokes has taken off recently, in large part due to Exarion's Fastest Pokemon Project for Gens 1-3.)

Sometimes the original games just aren't enough for the truly vivid imaginations in our community. What if we had access to different starters? What if the Rocket segments were removed? What if every trainer was a spinner? Category Extensions provide a place where we can answer these types of deep & burning Pokémon speedrunning hypotheticals.

"Minihacks" had their heyday from 2014-2016, with fun and awful ideas alike (see the original PSR forum thread). It would bring me great joy if we happen to re-energize the romhacking segment of the community and keep them busy with new ideas.

Meme categories are most welcome, and we will bring memes back to the people. Category Extensions are a paradise for those who treat memeing just as competitively as they treat Pokémon speedrunning. Who is the best at coming up with memey categories? What is the memeiest category we can design? Can we beat the word meme into the ground and deprive it of all meaning? (Most likely, yes; yes we can.)

Some random examples of meme categories that would be welcomed with open arms: "Nintendo Power%" (see here), "Poison a Nidoran" (spoilers: it involves Twineedle), "Obtain L69 Poke". Have other ideas? Go ahead, show just how big you can meme.

Irelandentrpntr3 years ago

Approved and added the run. (Myself or another mod can "like" posts in this thread as they're approved/added in order to reduce clutter.)

Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

Thanks for the good write-up. Approved and submitted the run.

Rules may need tweaking in the future in case they don't cover something, but you captured everything I could think of, and the intent is very clear.

Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

Updates - 17 Mar 2020

BGB 1.5.8 was released today, with improved features for speedrun mode (including on-screen display messages), and an explicit setting for the Game Boy Player platform. The new release (running with both Game Boy Player platform + speedrun mode) will be required for runs starting 10 Apr 2020, but anyone using 1.5.7 will want to update as soon as possible.

There is a bit more configuration involved to setting up BGB for speedruns, but this set of images should help verify your settings: https://imgur.com/a/VRPtvCs

Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

Updates - 14 Mar 2020

Posting a couple of (relatively) major rules updates:

  • Rules for the "Alt Main Pokes" were updated, to allow for more Pokémon to be used in runs, and to better match rule-sets across generations. Existing runs were not affected.
  • Gambatte-Speedrun r717 was released a few days ago. The new release will be required for runs starting 10 Apr 2020, but r664 users should update as soon as possible.

For posterity, the full new language for the Alt Main Pokes runs is now:

  • If you can acquire your main Pokémon before defeating Whitney, you must do so. Otherwise, you must acquire it with the fewest amount of badges required to do so.
  • After acquiring your main Pokémon, it must be used against every enemy Pokémon defeated through the end of the run. Generally speaking, this means if experience is given, it should be able to receive some naturally, i.e. without the Exp. Share. Exception: If your main Pokémon is acquired before the first badge, it is not required to be used until after Falkner is defeated.
  • To be considered "main", the Pokémon must be used to defeat a majority of all enemy Pokémon defeated throughout the run.

The old rules for "Alt Main Pokes" were:

  • The Pokémon used must be caught before defeating the second gym leader.
  • The Pokémon used must finish at a higher level than any other Pokémon owned throughout the run.
Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

After confirming the 377 number independently, I've added the category and the run to the leaderboards.

For verification, having something like the counter used in this run is very useful. Reviewing these types of runs in full won't always be practical, especially on a category extensions board where things aren't so serious.

It's not a big deal if we ever have to remove a run because a trainer was accidentally missed, but I'll think about if something like requiring some type of counter is a good idea, since it benefits both the runner and the verifier in providing confidence that all trainers were indeed fought.

Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

Xbox 360 and Xbox One controllers are the only controllers that have any known problem with background inputs in Gambatte-Speedrun. If a PS controller doesn't work, that would be a surprise, and worthy of a bug report.

Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

As a follow-up, the category is now available here. Feel free to suggest any changes you think should be made.

rinchanDX likes this
Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

Submitting on behalf of rinchanDX, from this post.

Proposed category name: Game Boy Tower (N64)

Applicable game(s): JPN Crystal (also applicable to ENG Crystal, and both ENG/JPN Gold/Silver)

Quick summary of goal/restrictions: Beat the game, using speedup modes available in Stadium 2's Game Boy Tower.

Category type: Glitchless.

Timing method: Timing starts when New Game is selected and ends when the last textbox is cleared after Red is defeated.

Category-specific rules: Subcategories possible for (1) ENG and JPN, (2) Gold/Silver and Crystal, (3) Dodrio (3x speed) and Doduo (2x speed).

Link and info for completed run(s):

JPN Crystal Dodrio (3x speed)

  • rinchanDX: 1h19m26s (Nov 10, 2019 on N64)

JPN Gold/Silver Dodrio (3x speed)

  • A few times listed here (bottom of the page)

Other general comments about the category:

Doduo (2x) mode may not be necessary as a category; it hasn't been run yet, and is slower than Dodrio (3x) mode, without adding anything. Can still leave things open for future inclusion.

rinchanDX likes this
Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

This has been mentioned as a good candidate for a category extension before, and can definitely be added over here. I'll try to remember to add a new board when I get a chance, and I can post your run once I have it set up.

rinchanDX likes this
Irelandentrpntr4 years ago
  • Reply in this thread to request a new Alt Main Poke subcategory if it isn't currently on the leaderboards (use the request format at the bottom of this post)
  • There must be at least one (1) completed run before the subcategory will be created
  • See this thread for how to submit proposals for other new categories; this thread is specifically for handling new Alt Main Poke requests, which follow established common rules (and thus require less information to get added)

(NOTE: See the leaderboard rules for either Crystal or Gold/Silver for what qualifies as an "Alt Main Poke" run.)

Include the follow information in your requests (a simple bulleted list is fine):

  • Main Pokémon used * - (specified by the final evolved form at the end of the run)*
  • Applicable game(s) * - (i.e. Gold/Silver or Crystal)*
  • Link and info for completed run(s) * - (if possible, include all of the following info: (1) link to video, (2) name of runner, (3) time (run length), (4) platform used, and (5) date the run was performed)*
  • Link to route document * - (optional)*
Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

Your last A press looks like it is one tile too early, which gets a 0/0/15/0 Nido instead of the 15/15/14/15 one.

Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

In general, video is the more important thing. As long as in-game audio is present, there aren't going to be any questions about legitimacy (having no audio can sometimes be considered "suspicious", since a lot of spliced runs get detected by analyzing audio from the run).

I posted this in the Rules thread and it applies here: "In general, Category Extensions leaderboards are less serious than the official PSR leaderboard categories. Failing to comply with rules once won't be a huge deal, and I'd like to avoid rejecting runs due to innocuous mistakes if there is a simple enough fix. In the end, these still are leaderboards, so we'll have to have to enforce some minimum standards."

I think Red Glitchless is the only category that has an explicit rule about audio, so it's not something that's going to get a run rejected here, barring some extremely exceptional circumstances.

Skyword572 and ScaryOne like this
Irelandentrpntr4 years ago

The formula (which is the same in Gold/Silver and Crystal) is well-explained at the top of the JavaScript code in this calculator (here is a direct link to the JavaScript file if that's easier to read). The character values for the trainer name are a bit below the explanation in the calculator, and are represented by the "tile number" associated with that character.

There are a few missing valid characters from that calculator, in case they are in the first 5 characters of your trainer name:

​​⠀ ​​⠀= 127 (space) ( = 154 ) = 155 : = 156 ; = 157 [ = 158 ] = 159 <PK> = 225 (1st half of stylized Pokémon symbol) <MN> = 226 (2nd half of stylized Pokémon symbol)

  • = 227 ? = 230 ! = 231 . = 232 × = 241 (multiplication symbol) / = 243 , = 244
SteveTheWizard likes this
Irelandentrpntr5 years ago

UnderscorePoY has updated the base version of these minihacks to version 1.3; the ROMs and a text file describing the changes can be found in this repository.

All runs from this point should use version 1.3 until further notice. The runs on old versions will be kept on the leaderboards.

Irelandentrpntr5 years ago

More info on the series of minihacks in this Exarion paste. It looks like a Raichu run has also been done.

I've added a leaderboard with the name "Custom Starter", and submitted these 2 runs (currently pending verification). I separated this leaderboard from the Minihacks board, since it's a case that requires subcategories (perhaps the Minihacks board can be done away with entirely, if enough any other hacks require subcategories).

Irelandentrpntr5 years ago

Since this is a series of related minihacks (I know Charizard was also created/routed for in Crystal), I would like to call this "Different Starter" (other suggested names are welcome). That way, we can create subcategories for whatever starter is used.

In any event, this category is approved. I will get the leaderboard added today.

Irelandentrpntr5 years ago

Approved. Leaderboard has been created, and my run has been submitted (pending verification by another mod).

Irelandentrpntr5 years ago

Proposed category name: Any% No ACE

Applicable game(s): Gold/Silver (also applicable to Crystal)

Quick summary of goal/restrictions: Beat the game, without the use of arbitrary code execution (ACE).

Category type: Glitched.

Timing method: Timing starts when New Game is selected and ends when the last textbox is cleared after Red is defeated.

Category-specific rules: Arbitrary code execution, and other machine-level "holy grail" glitches (arbitrary ROM execution, arbitrary memory corruption) are not allowed.

Link and info for completed run(s):

  • entrpntr: 1:04:19 (Aug 30, 2017 on GBP)

Link to route document: PB route can be found here, rough outline of new route that saves 20+ minutes can be found here.

Other general comments about the category:

  • werster and cp1414 also completed qualifying runs, on attempts of Gold Any% prior to the discovery of Coin Case ACE (using the "funky colors" map corruption route, showcased most prolifically in AGDQ 2013).
  • The run is also possible in Crystal, but would very likely be a bit slower due to lack of TM47 map corruption, as well as key item underflow being less cooperative than in Gold/Silver.
Irelandentrpntr5 years ago
  • New category proposals should be submitted through the SRC forums (use the below format)
  • There must be at least one (1) completed run of the category before creating a proposal thread
  • Category guidelines can be found here
  • Common rules for all categories can be found here
  • Requests for new Alt Main Pokes subcategories should be submitted here instead

See this thread for an example category proposal. Also see the rules pages for existing leaderboard categories for an idea on the format, or if you just want to copy some common phrasing for your submission.

> NOTE: New subcategories for Alt Main Pokes should be submitted here instead.

Thread title should contain "[Category Proposal]" and the proposed category name (e.g. "[Category Proposal] Any% No ACE").

  • Proposed category name
  • Applicable game(s) (rename to "Minihack info" if it's a minihack)
  • Quick summary of goal/restrictions
  • Category type (i.e. Glitchless/Glitched/Execution Segment)
  • Timing method (i.e. start and end points of the run)
  • Category-specific rules (including technical clarifications)
  • Link and info for completed run(s)
  • Link to route document
  • Other general comments about the category
  • Be specific if something other than English Gold/Silver/Crystal
  • Subcategories will be added for Gold/Silver and Crystal if category applies to all games
  • Submissions for "minihacks" must include hack's homepage and/or a description of the hack (but avoid directly linking to the ROM)
  • Explaining the category in simple English should take ~100 characters maximum
  • Save technical explanations/clarifications for the category-specific rules section

Include as many technical rules and clarifications for the category as needed.

Some specific things worth noting (depending on category type):

  • Glitched: Are there any specific glitches banned? (e.g. Save Corruption, ACE, Instant Victory, Underflow, etc.)
  • Glitchless: Are there exceptions for specific glitches? Acceptable in rare cases if good justification provided. Examples: Catch 'Em All "Dupe Glitch Only" (saves ~10 hours, glitch is extremely well-known casually); "Start with TM47" and "PC Jack" minihacks (point of the hacks is explicitly to allow 1 specific glitched mechanic).
  • Execution Segments: Must be amenable to console (e.g. soft reset between trials instead of loading savestate). Must also include a link to a savestate (or .sav) file and/or provide detailed info how save should be prepared.
  • If possible, include all of the following info: (1) link to video, (2) name of runner, (3) time (run length), (4) platform used, and (5) date the run was performed
About entrpntr
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