Thank you for the reply, we're looking forward to the changes! Where is the community discussion happening for these rule changes? And as always, we're here to help with any information you need when it comes to emulator discussion. We've done significant testing on multiple emulators and the time difference between them so if you have any questions that need clarification, feel free to holler!

It's been a year. I did say "stay tuned" and we have replicated plenty of results, but it doesn't look like management is interested in implementing duckstation at this time. Sorry to lead you on, I'm not in a position of power to make it happen. The information we collected is still there if ever needed. I would stick to running the allowed emulators at this time for leaderboard purposes.

The 2x/10x speedups on duckstation seem to come within a minute or two of PSTV/PSP if you want to practice on that to replicate the real run. Run it in GUI mode with 2X read speedup and 10X seek speedup and leave everything else default. Plus, you can implement autofire if you really want to simulate the current run. Good luck!

hey, sorry for the super late reply, I must have been guessing you were asking about the snes version. I'm just helping with the arcade side of the board, so I'm basically just asking people to not use anything that gives an artificial timesave, or has been known to be inaccurate. For the arcade side - if anyone knows more about arcade emulators and is willing to help - please post in the "New Main Category Added (Arcade)" thread, and perhaps we can get a better picture about arcade emulators.

we have a few other runners trying to replicate my results here, so we'll have more information soon, stay tuned

I've been able to consistently match my psxfin emulator times with the 2x now, I recommend that for now as an emulator that matches the other emulators for now

I've been working on finding a good duckstation setting we can all agree with but it's so variable that it's hard to find something. My best run on psxfin was a 2:43, I wonder if I can find some settings that allow the game to run at that speed.

I don't mind putting in the work to find that setting by doing runs, if this is a good solution.

If I'm understanding this right, if I do like 3 levels in story mode and then reset, I can start the 4th with a reset in-game timer? I'm confused - but if that is the case just banning mid-run resets would be the answer. Let me know if I'm understanding this right.

EBC is the expert on this, but GBA emulators run artificially faster than GB - not sure how fast it runs if you point your camera to an actual GBA tbh, but that's why they aren't allowed at this point IIRC

I did an emulator run and it was a mid 2:45 - emu runs are 7-9 minutes behind it seems.

I feel bad for those who can't afford consoles and capture cards. It's a big gatekeep for the leaderboard. I understand the reason for not separating the leaderboards, but is there anything we can do? Runners are giving up, and I'd like to have a bigger community.

Let's think creatively and see if we can figure something out

Okay, did a lot more timing and testing.

The problem with duckstation speedups is that it's inconsistent with PSTV/PSP. Duckstation loses a few seconds to the initial load while blowing 10 door split loads out of the water. There aren't any settings I can do to fully emulate the PSTV loads, unfortunately. It's always faster on some loads while slower on others on custom settings. On default settings it does seem to emulate the PS1 loads well.

The cost of entry to compete in this game is very high, so my recommendation is adding to the leaderboard an emulator category with a standard emulator that we all agree upon. It's a major change, but I believe it will bring in a lot of runners, especially those who are closer to poverty and cannot afford buying a console for one speedrun.

I think the discrepancy between the PSN and PS1 emulators is much more than 2-3 minutes, but I haven't finished testing. I know that you lose 11 seconds before even getting to Eve1, and 1 second every door load, so that estimate feels low to me.

Take that with a grain of salt, I really need to get back in the testing. I feel like the 2-3 minute differential is the difference of a ps2 9xxx and the PSN, not the PS1 version. More testing needed though.

I like the concept of a single board, but halfway through testing, I don't know if I can ever find that exact parity.

I see good arguments for both sides, but I think I'm leaning 70/30 for the leaderboard split rn, just mostly because of the high cost(300$ish) to run the game (competitively)

Did some tests, there are settings to make duckstation load faster than the PSTV/PSP version, but I'm having trouble trying to find some sort of parody with the PSTV version. I'm getting close, but I don't know if it's possible. I'll try again in a few days.

What I learned the most about though is PS1 emulation. Every door load loses at least a second, and you lose 11 seconds to loading before Eve 1 - pretty nuts.

I'll get the ball rolling on some emu tests, if anything it will add information to the conversation, even if we don't end up doing anything with it.

I could have sworn there was a much bigger difference between ps1 emu and PSN. IIRC I gained 5 mins just jumping from ps1 emu to ps2 slim FDS, but that could have been just getting better at the game I suppose. Plus that was 4 years ago and my memory could be off.

I'll mess around with some duckstation and see what I can do and report back here.

As a sidenote, I just want to add that we've already gone though a PSN closing down scare, and who knows if they will do it again in the future. If that happens, we'd be asking everyone to not only buy expensive consoles, but taking the risk of hacking them. Just a thought for the horizon.

I am willing to try to find emulator setups that are close to PSN times, but I don't know how close I can get to it. It will take work, but I'm willing to try. Hit me up if this an acceptable option!

If you run on an emulator, you get an automatic 5-10 minute penalty because of how slow it is compared to hardware. It's allowed, but you will never do anything but trash runs because of the handicap.

The case study of Gameboy boards is fascinating and relevant to this topic. Emulators there are the exact same speed as hardware, so they get a ton of people playing the popular games, and emu's are allowed in the main leaderboard. A lot of gameboy boards have emu runs in the top of the leaderboard.

We don't have that parody due to hardware, it's just not possible for us. The current leaderboard is non-competitive for anyone who doesn't have 200+ dollars to throwaway for one speedgame setup. That bums out a lot of potential runners, of which I've had a more than a few of them come into my stream during PE runs and complain about the cost-of-entry to be competitive.

I'd also like to recommend that if we do a emu category that it is not the default category that shows up on the leaderboard.

Here's how I see it (personal opinion)-

Myself and other runners who CAN afford the hundreds of dollars to get a hardware setup actually get an easier competitive environment because not that many potential runners want to put out the dough to learn/run this game. Leaderboard culture is important to a lot of people, and that just is what it is - the arguments to the pros and cons of it are both sound, but it exists.

If we do an separate emu category, and we pick a consistent emu, that gives a competitive environment for EVERYONE since people who currently run on hardware could also run in the emu category as well. The top 10 environment wouldn't change because those who can afford it can run both, and those who can't, can run that same separate category equally.

I 100% believe that if we add that category, we'd get a ton of new runners within the next year.

I propose we test and find a build of duckstation that we like and just require that emulator in the rules of that category. Perhaps slower emu's as well. As always, I'm willing to help put in the work here, so let me know. I could try and find a setting that has similar 10-door load tests to the PSN version, but it would never be perfect. Hit me up if this is an option worth considering.

I wish it were like the gameboy emulators, where a lot of them are incredibly accurate. We could just pick the most accurate emu's and run them - but ps1 emulation is not that precise, unfortunately. A lot of the ps1 emus are kind of close to PS1 or PS2 accurate, but finding PSN accuracy would be a total nightmare.

Case in point: gameboy emulators are incredibly accurate - so a leaderboard like GB Kirby's Dream Land is mostly emulator runs, even the top 10. We can't offer that accuracy yet for the PSN PSP/PSTV version yet, and I don't know if that's ever going to be possible. Honestly, I don't think the threshold is possible, but I'd like to hear more, especially from plywood's take from the MGS community.

Good discussion to have though, love to hear all the quriks about it.

If we figured out a way to make an emulator exactly like the PSN-PSP/PSTV version, I think we should continue with one leaderboard, I'll help put in the work with that, but I don't know if it will ever be perfect.

Also, just want to note, if emu is a separate category, you could run in both categories. It would still be the same competitive environment, because everyone who ran it on PSP/PSTV could also run it on emu as well.

I also want to note that I've had plenty of people in my stream say that they want to run the game but they can't spend the money. A PSP+Wires+A/V Capture card is a daunting, $200+ task for a setup for one speedgame. PSTV is more. The massive price of running this game is a serious gatekeep.

As plywood said, the loads are faster with their current emu build/category. I don't think we'll ever have the testing available to make sure an emu is the EXACT same as PSP/PSTV. We'd have to test almost every load. I'm willing to do 10 door load tests as much as possible, but it would take a year to do every load and make sure all the settings are consistent.

I'm willing to put the work in, but a separate emu category seems like the easiest for acessability,