[quote]That matches IGT start for everything except 09 Leo where IGT starts during the camera tutorial. However, IGT keeps going after the rift jump ends until the LB screen pops up. Should we keep RTA as it is now or tie it to the start/end triggers of IGT: starting when skipping cutscene for 09 Leo, closing ADA for the rest (specify end of animation); ending when the LB screens pops up (specify start of animation)?[/quote]

For my most recent run on 09 Leo, I started timing on closing the ADA log and I believe I ended timing on pressing the prompt that says "Initiate Jump to Farsite." Those two seemed the closest to the rules for other maps as far as I could tell. There is technically some gameplay before the ADA log, but it's a simple camera tutorial so I'm not sure if much is lost by not including it. No units can be placed prior to opening the ADA log (unless you break other rules) so there's no concern with unit placement in the camera tutorial section. That was just my take, though, so I understand if you need to reject my video because it doesn't include the opening bit before the ADA log.

As for the timing for ending the run, there's another message prompt after the "Jump to Farsite" one but it reads less like a rift jump prompt so I thought the former seemed more natural. Again, that's just what felt most natural to me personally and at least this one is a simple matter of retiming if we decide to go with another timing method.

[quote]Also should we keep Rift Jump Only as "Rift Jump Only" or rename it "Any%" to better match the other two categories?[/quote]

I don't see any harm keeping it as Rift Jump Only. That way it's super clear what the goal is, whereas with Any% someone may get the mistaken impression that they only have to complete a single objective.

[quote]Did some testing, Archon 110% is possible (Creeper graph reads 0.00) but it is not easy to perform. I set up disarmed shields and armed them all at once to stop the orbs for ~30 seconds to get it. !() edit: copy paste url, I don't understand speedrun.com image embedding.[/quote]

Also, Leo and Farsite (the first two levels of the campaign) are most likely impossible to complete on 110%. We have speculated about a few ideas, but ultimately it doesn't seem reasonably possible to get the map clear on either of those two levels. The main reason is due to the lack of mortars, which means it's seemingly impossible to destroy the creeper at the bottom of deep crevices. The lack of nullifier is another sticking point, though potentially possible to work around. Without mortars it seems impossible, though. We're always open to being proven wrong, but I personally think it might be prudent to bar off those two spots on the leaderboard similarly to the first three spots on 100% until someone demonstrates some way to accomplish it.

Thankfully, on Home you receive both mortar and nullifier which eliminates both of these issues. The void is a potential concern for creeper getting stuck later, but we essentially concluded that even if you're clumsy enough to let the creeper build up on void it's still essentially just a matter of time to let the creeper drain back onto dry land, since internally void is treated as though it's extremely high terrain.

Thanks for getting the no time warp categories implemented! It's kinda funny how the only time on the main leaderboard at the moment is one I did for the IGT standard, but that will be remedied soon. As a small aside, I think there's a typo in the rule set for the new no time warp category - the rules still technically say time warp is allowed.

[quote]I'm sure that won't last too long though, especially with @Fireswamp finding new cheese strats (sub-1 min IGT Wallis, anyone?)[/quote]

To be fair, the cheese for Wallis and Ruins are both quite old. I was tehcnically the first one to pull off the Wallis cheese, but that's only because I had access to the level before hypno and fire did. I'm pretty sure the three of us all came up with this strat independently.

If you think that strat is crazy, wait until you see some of the upcoming videos that are in the works now for the new category ;)

Yeah, I've been keeping an eye on the other thread. I already gave my input there and don't have much more to add. At this point I'm mainly just waiting to see if the no time warp category ever comes to fruition, since that will make for the most level playing field.

So I submitted an IGT run on Leo recently, and now that it's been approved it seems that the main leaderboard displays the run's RTA timing under the IGT category rather than the proper IGT. This means that my time is listed on the main all-level leaderboard as 4:25 even though the IGT (which the category is based around) was only 53 seconds. Obviously this also applies to other IGT runs as well, not just the one I'm specifically discussing. I was curious if there's any way to fix this discrepancy, or if it's just a quirk of having multiple timings that we'll have to get used to.

[quote]If RTA is chosen, a no time warp sub-category could be added for weak hardware. [/quote]

As an up-front disclaimer, I have some bias on this subject due to my own inadequate hardware. That said, I feel that it if we do go with RTA as the standard, it would make more sense for no time-warp to be the default with time warp being a subcategory if anything. This first reason is because as-is, allowing time warp pretty much just means the optimal strategy always involves pressing 4x as soon as the map loads and trying to finish the map in a frenzy. It's an interesting way to play, but doesn't feel to me like it should be the default.

The other reason I think relegating no time warp to a subcategory would be detrimental to the community is because it would pretty much take people like myself out of the competition entirely. With the size of the community we have, I sincerely doubt there will be any notable competition in whichever option is chosen to be a side category. If there's no competition in the category that levels the playing field for everyone, then it will be strongly discouraging to a lot of people who may otherwise be interested in running the game. Just my (admittedly rather biased) 2 cents on the situation.

[quote=Blobofdoom]On saves: I can't think of a good way to implement saves to be honest. Everything I think of has too many holes for cheating: -Just record the last segment from load->end of game (So easy to manipulate) -Record the whole thing including every save and load (Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge files) -Stitch together a run with your best save/loads (tons of work to verify)[/quote]

I'm not sure there's a good solution regarding saves. As you mentioned, any options which allow for loading saves will come with drawbacks, whether that be in regard to video processing, cheat detection, etc. As much as I hate to say it due to the fact that our current speedrun methodology revolves heavily around saves, it may be best to just disallow loading saves for this leaderboard so people are required to perform the run in one sitting. Really, allowing pause and frame advance (when IGT is the main metric) already brings the playstyle much closer to TASing, bringing save/load into the mix would only exacerbate this.

[quote=Blobofdoom]Cheating: I like the 720p idea for additional verification, I'll add a main rule. Do .rec files hang around on a local PC after reset? If they do I'd consider not having to upload them but asking people to keep them available at mods request (keeps the barrier to entry low. Runs can be invalidated if they're fishy and .rec files cannot be produced).[/quote]

Yeah, the .rec files are kept permanently in the game's directory unless you manually delete them. You can use the "Recorder" button in the main menu to access the recorder, which lets you make a video out of them for easy sharing.

[quote=Blobofdoom]On copying runs: Copying every input seems like it would be ridiculously hard - has anyone tried this? I'll look at some other deterministic games (e.g. trackmania) to see how they handled it.[/quote]

For games like trackmania which are very input sensitive and fast paced, it is indeed very difficult to properly copy someone else's strategy. The A-1 map is so notorious because everyone knows exactly what needs to be done, but executing is not nearly as simple as knowing the correct buttons to press. CW4 is a bit different, however, especially if the IGT is the primary method of timing. It's much easier to copy someone's sequence of moves in an RTS. The fact that you can pause and perfectly control time flow as well as being able to much more easily distinguish all the inputs from a video are the two main factors in my eyes.

All that said, unfortunately I don't have a good solution to this issue either.

Check under guides for "Any% Glitchless Beginners IT Guide (No Mega Punch)" it has a link to the BIOS.

I believe he was recalling the fact that holding A allows you to run further up a slope, as demonstrated in Simply's beginner movement tutorials.