Pretty much second that with the SRT still being required. This is a whole can of worms that's been opened, which brings up a few avenues as to how we can deal with this. Either we find a way to have the SRT work with the U.S. version so others can run that version of Outbreak (in which I feel that would be an annoyance to the creators to set aside time to get it to work), or we ban the U.S. version from being ran, to ensure fairness and consistency across the board with those running the Japanese version of the game.

The biggest thing that grinds my gears about this is why Trance never mentioned running the U.S. version. Long ago in the discord server for Outbreak speedruns, Trance came in, strongly defending this run without even mentioning that he was running the U.S. version to achieve this result. Only that "it was possible, just very rare to achieve" (AKA, the most vague answer to give for a suspicious speedrun). This just became a wonder over time as to how he got the 0 change until the testing was done, and even then, most of us were testing the Japanese version, since that's what EVERYONE runs and is what has been the standard for running Outbreak, due to the ability to be able to play Online.

If we had known that that was the version he ran, we wouldn't be talking about this, right now. We'd have settled on a decision and moved on from this, already. Instead, he chose to hide this fact and make us run around in circles with the WRONG region version to achieve the same result.

In my honest opinion, I say we should ban the U.S. version, but I want to know what others are thinking about this revelation, now that we Finally figured out the 0 Change. At the same time, this begs the question: Does this run STILL deserve to be up on the board, after all these years?

I'd say no. Everyone runs the Japanese version of Outbreak due to the fact that that is THE go-to version for Offline AND Online runs. And quite honestly, it just feels wrong for it to be up on the board, now that we realized that this was a different version that was ran. And from what I can tell, it seems like the 0 Change is non-existent on the Japanese version, since many have tested over hundreds to thousands of times trying to replicate the result, to no avail.

Like I said though, this is something that I want to hear others weigh in on before making a decision.

Indeed it does. If you were to go through the trouble of that, then why even bother trying to cheat in the first place if you'll eventually get caught for it? And even if someone were to do such a thing, that's why we're still looking at runs.

When I have a submission to look over, I play the run multiple times, making sure to keep an eye on the tracker and any strange moments during my verification process results in a thorough look over of those moments to determine if any cheating had been done. This is my first time being a Mod, let alone a Super Mod for a game. And the game I'm a Super Mod for happens to be one of my absolute favorite RE games of all time since I started playing it, years ago. I want to make sure things are done right and that this community gets the quality moderation that it deserves, whether it'd be getting runs verified in a timely fashion, or ensuring that the cheaters stay out of our boards.

There was a concern about the tracker, but not in a way that convinced many in the community as to why it was bad to utilize it. Some time back (like I mentioned, it was banned for a period, late December before the ban got lifted a month or so later), a Super Mod made a shot in the dark out of nowhere with banning it back in late December, and everyone got pretty angry at the fact that there was no reason as to why it was taken down (later, reasons were given, but were immediately counter-argued and caused the argument to be discredited, and it still continued to bring discourse to the community, which was already tired of rule changes, even the Super Mod himself that introduced the tracker ban was tired of rule changes). That also explains why not many runners have been around, since some have ended up leaving after that whole debacle.

And I mentioned Online because it does indeed get the most of its use there, but what makes you think that it won't stop cheaters in Offline runs? I'm curious to know why that'd be the case.

Again with TAS and SRTs, a TAS has a hell (pardon my language) of a lot more of an influence in terms of how it affects speedrunning a game than what an SRT can bring. You're comparing a application that tracks information about the current level, player stats and inventories, and solutions to some puzzles (in which it doesn't matter to bring up passwords, since EVERYONE, console players included, could just reset until they get the best code, save stating (in EMU's case) or not) to something that can directly control player characters and manipulate the game in a way that, and I will restate this, is HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE.

I apologize for jumping in late to this whole exchange, but Epica's arguments just make my head tilt in utter confusion at the reasoning for those arguments:

Why are we still using an example of a run from long ago, when the rules and methods of running were different, and is STILL a questionable run, to this day? And UhTrance's run of Hellfire, despite the "Zero Change" (which I have never been able to replicate since running File 1) has been beaten by another runner. If anyone is able to replicate the "Zero Change" with actual, un-doctored footage of the game (which means having the tracker on, also!), then there may be some leeway to what you're arguing for with allowing the U.S. version to be something runners can speedrun on. So far, I've only gotten, "I've seen this back when I was playing Outbreak, years back" or "Yeah, that's possible, just SUPER RARE" when I mention Zero Change to others that have played the game. That isn't a way to prove such a thing exists. You got to think about it. Why... and I mean WHY would devs make a rare RNG puzzle solution that automatically solves the puzzle they created? It doesn't make sense, and to this day, it still hasn't been confirmed that it actually happens. When it is proven, then like I said, the legitimacy of utilizing the US NTSC version would be valid and something that can be further discussed.

The U.S. version is nearly (and I mean damn nearly, because of the localization) identical to the JP version that it literally doesn't matter whether or not to use it. And even then, there has been a serious lack of evidence that other versions are faster than the JP version. If that was the case, then what I'm talking about next would come to fruition (an SRT that works with more than just the JP version).

Also, "using the SRT is like a TAS"? A TAS is Tool-Assisted Speedrunning, which means there's something that majorly helps you during a run (as in something that can actually do things, such as taking player control and being able to perform speed strats that's humanly impossible, for instance). The SRT for this game only shows health values, attack power percentage, inventory items you currently have, and what items are in the room. It is literally that. A Tracker that shows you stuff you need to know about the scenario and the players in the game. How is that like using a TAS?!

If you think the SRT ONLY benefits runners and NOT CHEATERS, then I'm sorry, but the legitimacy of your argument suffers heavily with that statement, alone. Most of the runners here are on an Emulator, and an emulator opens up many avenues of cheating that can be so easily hidden during an Online run, weren't it for the Tracker existing for us to utilize and see if anything fishy comes up with players, during a run. And there have been instances of cheating happening and the SRT allowed mods before my time now as a Mod to catch and appropriately take down or reject the run submission.

If the SRT was actually considered a TAS by a serious amount of the Outbreak speed community (which it hasn't been considered such a thing till YOU brought it up), then what happened back in the Winter (The Tracker Ban) would have not resulted in the Tracker being brought back (AKA, the Tracker would have actually been considered a threat to runners and would cause problems, with proper reasons as to why). It's here for a reason, and it's here to stay.

Hey, everyone. I've been playing/running this game for a good amount of time now; and with the recent rule changes that were made at the beginning of this year, regarding the Tracker and other things, I decided to just break the silence I had with this game's speed community, and say something.

I don't see anyone stepping up to say what needs to be said, so I went and made a long exposé on Google Docs that highlights exactly WHY these changes are detrimental to the speed game, and were also done in an ill-informed fashion. I have a feeling some will appreciate what's in it, since I've seen these kinds of comments in the past, regarding different issues that arose during this board's existence.

It's up to you if you wish to read through it (in which I hope those that have the ability to work on the boards DO READ IT), but I'm absolutely tired of what this game has went through and become, now that many have left the scene. I want this game to be great, but it takes someone to not sugarcoat the issues at hand that are in SERIOUS NEED of Addressing to make Outbreak what it could be, in Resident Evil Speedrunning. In advance, I thank you for your time... and for SOMETHING to be done.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aGYP24XFXF990_05l5z6-kee8KCrmmoVWYZ9OuanbY8/edit?usp=sharing

I just say no glitches at all and play it the way I first played the game when I never knew about glitches... but faster. :D That's what I think when it comes to Glitchless.

That'll be nice to add the Glitchless category back.

It'll be really interesting to see a Glitchless category for a game like this because it is fairly quick to beat the game with no glitching whatsoever.