Imagine 2 sports, sport A which allows the use of doping and sport B which doesn't allow the use of doping. Now both sports exist for a while but then sport organisation B decides to allow doping. From that moment sport A and B look the same to an outsider as they both allow the use of doping. And an athlete who wants to start competing in either sports has to buy and use doping. For an athlete who competed clean in sport B it is not the same however as his performances now get compared with people who use doping. In sport A this situation never existed as everyone competing used doping since the introduction of the sport.

Or in short: Yes to someone completely new it is the same. To the people who have been running tr2013 in the past 5 years it is not. Thinking that (all) new rice runners have the DLC already (which I don't btw) is completely unrelated to the argument.

Well the way I understood the situation was as follows: We didn't realize in rottr that we all have a dlc installed for quite a bit until the swap pistol at campfire came up. All the runners active at that time (which was at the beginning not 5 years after release) had the dlc installed anyways so keeping the dlc was more like maintaining status quo. In tr2013 we would add a dlc that many runners didn't have / don't have to make the run a bit faster/easier/different, which means the two are not exactly the same. That being said nothing speaks against a category with dlc. However I strongly dislike option 1. Next to the reason Tau stated: "I don't like 1 because that makes all the prior runs easy to beat for others making it bad for ppl who wont run anymore." I personally would feel "robbed" as the option to run with dlc existed since the beginning but we decided against it... now 5 years later my pb becomes obsolete because someone had the idea to add that same dlc you have to pay extra money for anyways I'm ok with options 2 and 3 which are nearly the same (2 categories one with and one without dlc and the existing any% runs are still there). So basically it's just a question of what is/will be more popular and make that the main category. Looking at how active people run tr2013 atm it should be any% with dlc which means option 3 makes the most sense to me right now. If in some weird future most people think that running with dlc is trash and everybody runs without dlc we could make no dlc the main category again anyways.