United StatesI have finished my analysis on the 100% category. I concluded, to my surprise, that the A-1, A-2, and A-3 revisits will incur similar time discrepancies to uncleared missions. It seems that gem collection impacts the way the game saves. The penalty for 100% will be 27 seconds. I also looked at Low% and found that even though no money is collected, the game still takes a similar amount of time to save. The penalty for Low% will be 24 seconds. Finally for NGNG+, I have not performed an analysis, but I infer it will be no different than a truncated NG+ run. Taking the data from B-1 through King Boo of a NG+ run, I got a penalty of ~9.5 seconds, which I rounded up to 10 seconds.
Following the questions I posed in my previous post, I have decided to not implement penalties for the mansion categories. If anyone wants to discuss this decision, I am open to overturn it if enough people disagree. I have also decided to leave the home menu reset discussion to stand. No changes will be made, however in the future I am ready to discuss it if anyone wants to revisit the idea.
Also, upon revisiting parts of my analysis, I found that NTR users who can perform home menu resets may need additional penalties. I have very, very little data on this, so I won't be implementing a penalty until more NTR home menu resets are available for me to look at. The penalty could be as large as 3 seconds per home menu reset. If a penalty like this is applied in the future, all current runs at the time will not be affected.
#Time Penalties All future runs which use NTR to record will follow these time penalties:
- Any% - 24 seconds
- NG+ - 12 seconds
- 100% - 27 seconds
- Low% - 24 seconds
- NGNG+ - 10 seconds
The following categories don't have any penalties:
- the 5 individual mansions
- the 34 missions and their subcategories
- the 36 Scarescraper types and their subcategories
- All Gems
- All Boos
- All E. Gadd Medals
#Background NTR is a custom firmware modification that can launch and run certain plugins. It can be installed on all of the systems in the 3DS family. This thread specifically refers to the New 3DS and New 2DS systems however, since their extra processing power is required to run any of the several video streaming plugins available. These plugins allow you to capture the video stream without a capture card. Unfortunately for speedrunning, they will often cause load times to be shorter than normal because they utilize the extra processing power available to the New 3DS systems. Because of this, time penalties are needed to alleviate this discrepancy. This is why NTR is a necessary consideration for any 3DS speedrunning community.
#Other NTR Issues In Any% and 100%, some NTR users may experience difficulty performing home menu resets. NTR may crash or softlock during the process. If you are experiencing this issue, please confirm that you are using the latest version of NTR and the video streaming plugin of your choice. You may also consider seeking assistance from other 3DS homebrew communities. If the issue persists, you will unfortunately not be able to perform any home menu resets during the run, however you may perform just the intro cutscene skip on a new file before beginning the Any% or 100% run. You may start the run on this "primed" file with a timer offset of +23 seconds (this is different than a penalty). If you have any questions about this, please reply to this thread or ask in our Discord server. In the future, if NTR users are still experiencing issues with home menu resets, we may discuss the possiblity of developing and implementing a "time-loss compensation" system to account for the time lost to watching the unskippable E. Gadd bunker sequences upon unlocking different things throughout the game. Again this is only relevant within Any% and 100%. All other categories do not utilize home menu resets.
#Original post (edited): This is very long overdue, but I have finally finished enough of my analysis to begin this discussion. On average, NTR saves 0.9s when exiting a mission in Any% and 0.45s in NG+. Upon entering a mission, there is negligible difference. So NTR seems to affect save times, but not load times (in the case of Dark Moon). Over the course of an entire run this means that NTR saves ~24s in Any% and ~12s in NG+. Starting today these penalties will be applied to those categories, affecting all future NTR runs, but no current NTR runs. As for 100% and other categories, I will do a few more tests to confirm what their penalties should be. I am also wondering if we should even bother adding an NTR penalty to the mansion categories. At most, the penalty would only be about 2.5s. I don't think it is necessary, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
Finally, I'd like to address a certain topic for discussion. Some NTR users have reported crashing upon exiting the game. This places the upgrade cutscenes in Any% into an awkward situation. Normally we perform a home menu reset to skip them, but of course this requires closing the game, so some NTR runners would be unable to perform these cutscene skips as a result.
We need to decide if those unavoidable time losses should be alleviated. As in, applying some sort of time compensation to cover for any upgrade cutscenes that the NTR runner gets. It's likely that this retribution would have to be determined on a mission basis however, as the time-loss does differ depending on the cutscene (e.g., the polterpup missions are like twice as long). The downside of implementing this system would be its complexity, likely causing confusion (...if you aren't confused already). There is also the argument that NTR runners shouldn't get a "free pass" on performing home menu resets because it is unfair to non-NTR runners. While home menu resets are not difficult to perform, it is still the runner's responsibility to remember to do them.
So I want to pass this to the community to hear your thoughts on if a "time-loss compensation" system should be implemented for the upgrade cutscenes. Additionally, if anyone has any insight regarding easy solutions to the crash issue itself, that input would be appreciated. Again not all NTR users experience these crashes. It may not be a large issue.
I have re-organized the leaderboard and its subcategories. Previously, the main categories were:
- Normal Mansion
- Hidden Mansion
- Co-Op (Normal Mansion) - Misc.
- Co-Op (Hidden Mansion) - Misc. The subcategories for Normal Mansion and Co-Op (Normal Mansion) were "Any%" and "100%." The subcategories for Hidden Mansion and Co-Op (Hidden Mansion) were "Any%," "100%," and "A-Rank."
The main categories now are "Any%" and "100%." Both have the same tier 1 subcategories ("Normal Mansion" and "Hidden Mansion") and tier 2 subcategories ("Solo" and "Co-Op").
I have also completely removed the A-Rank category from the re-organization. There were no runs for the category.
Lastly, I reworded the rules and have included clear video requirements.
The rules do require video evidence for world record runs now. Mini's runs were allowed to be on the board when this rule was made however.
We have categories for each of the individual mansions. They are located in the misc. tab. Just be sure to read the rules to know where the timer starts and stops so that you can submit a correct time. You can find Gloomy Manor here https://www.speedrun.com/lm2/full_game#Gloomy_Manor
It seems you have already found it though. In your submission, the video "was removed because it was too long." This is the error that Youtube is giving, so if you could trim the video, reupload it, and submit that video, that would be great. If you cannot get the video uploaded, that is fine. For the mansion categories, video is only required for WR. Just submit without a video if you cannot find a way to upload yours correctly.
I'd recommend having the route available in case you forget where to go or what to do. There is also a list of strats that I've been working on, so feel free to give it a look. Link Don't worry about what time you get. Just focus on finishing the run and getting a feel for the route. It's pretty long, so make sure you have plenty of time.
It really varies, but we usually get around to looking at runs within a day. Sometimes it can be within a few hours. That's just for this game though. Every game is managed by it's own mod team, so some games will have much longer waiting times depending on how active the mods are. Also welcome! Hopefully you can enjoy running this game. If you ever want to ask about strats that you see the WR use or if you have some other questions, feel free to join our Discord. You can still use the forum here, but most of our discussions happen on Discord.
As you may be aware by now, the most recent update for Luigi's Mansion 3 patched Amadeus Skip on 4F, The Great Stage. Previously, we would gooigi push onto the stage and enter the dressing room just before the cutscene would play after defeating the ballerina goobs. We would then exit the dressing room, wait about eight seconds, and then re-enter the dressing room to have the game auto-save. Quitting and loading this auto-save would end the fight, and skip the third phase with the piano. This skip saved 2.5 minutes, and looked very impressive. It's a shame to see it go.
Version 1.4.0 patched out the skip by adding a paranormal gate on the door to the dressing room. To address this, we have split Any%, All Boos, and All Gems into "Legacy" and "1.4.0+" subcategories. For the legacy subcategory, You may only submit runs played on versions 1.0.0 through 1.3.0. We have also added a variable to track, from here on out, what version a run is performed on.
I like this idea. I think that it could be a lot of fun to approach scarescraper from a competitive aspect rather than a cooperative one. As for the details of scoring the run, I think that how it is scored will really change how the runners approach the scarescraper. With making ghost weight the most important, it will mean that searching certain furniture in polterpup mode will be a good strategy, as it spawns more ghosts. And also clearing the floor in rush will be a good strategy. I think that with the correct way to score it, it could be fun. Perhaps we could even make some sort of competitive idea for non-solo scarescrapers
I'll be using this post as a place to put certain resources. They will probably be fairly obscure things. A few of the resources may also not be the most readable because not every spreadsheet or document is created with the intention to be used by someone other than the creator. I am not putting these in the Guides or Resources section of the website because I want to keep those sections fairly clean.
- Player IL Stats
- List of Softlocks and Crashes
- Mansion Run Description Tool
- Possible E. Gadd Storages
- Mission RNG
- Max values
- Cutscene times
- B Boss brief theoretical RNG
- Boo Locations Guide
There are many more resources, including these, in this google drive folder:
Thank you. And you're welcome! I'm glad that you have played the bingo. If you would like to play with other people in the community as well, we occasionally have games on the discord server. You are free to join the server if you are interested
For missions, we let people submit the best time that they can get. This means that they can (usually) use whatever methods possible. If this is what you mean by any%, then we already run on that system.
If you are still confused by what RTA% means, then I will do my best to explain it. There are some glitches that we don't use in the Full-Game speedruns. These glitches save in-game time, which means that they are good for mission speedruns because those use the timer on the results screen. The glitches can't be used in a speedrun of the whole game though, because those speedruns use real time or RTA. The glitches take extra time in real time to perform. We want the primary category for the missions to display times that are only reasonable to get in a full game run. So that 1:26 in the E. Gadd storage category of A-1 is not allowed on the primary category. We had a hard time coming up with a name for the primary category that does not include the glitches like this, so we named the category RTA% because the category only uses strats that you would use for RTA speedruns.
Hopefully that makes sense. Let me know if you are still confused
Banana unmodded himself. A lot of discussion has been happening in the discord server, and from my perspective, it seems he feels he has not been respected in the community, which I can completely understand with my perception of the discussions he was in before leaving. I hope he returns, but that is his decision. He has contributed so much. It isn't right to see someone this influential leave so suddenly. There is something wrong. I hope I can do my best
Here is a list of all the resources related to playing LM2 Bingo! If I missed one, please let me know! Gem Availability and Locations Gold Greenie Locations Bonus Room and Gold Bloonberry Locations WR Times Possible Bingo Objectives (List at top)
And here is where you can generate the bingo board. Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon should be one of the games that you can select https://bingosync.com/ Classic single-bingo generally takes anywhere from 30 minutes to 1.5+ hours depending on skill level and board layout.
As for the rules and how it works, I will try my best to explain. First of all, this bingo is intended to be played on a completed file that has all the missions unlocked. Unlike other games, we do not start from a new file for bingo (otherwise it would be less fun and take more time). This means that the objectives for the spaces are things for you to do on that file "again." For instance the space, "All gems Gloomy" cannot just be checked off if you have already done that on the file. You need to go back and collect them all again (perhaps some for the first time) to mark that space. I think this is obvious, but for some people, this clarification is needed...
The bingo objectives cover a lot of this game. It can be very difficult for beginners due to the vast amount of things there are. Hopefully the resources linked above can help. You may find yourself having to find things you never knew existed in the game.
Another thing to note is that you don't have to finish missions unless they pertain to spaces that refer to missions, like "3 missions Mines, 3 bonus missions, A-1 and A-3 Any% route." These spaces are marked on the "Possible bingo objectives" doc. So if a space does not say anything about a mission, such as "All gems Haunted," you do not have to finish that mission for the objective to count. For example, you could get 2 gems in B-3, quit when you touch the last one, get 6 gems in B-4, quit when you touch the last one there, and get the rest in B-Bonus, again quitting when you touch the last one there, and that would count for the "All gems Haunted" objective. The same goes for gold greenies, and other non-mission related spaces.
Of course, some bingo objectives can be combined, and you can work on several at the same time.
Generally, we like to play where the board is revealed by everyone together, and then after a set time (like 3 minutes) where we study the spaces to see what we want to go for, we start.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask in this forum post, or at the discord server on the Dark Moon channel
For anyone looking to get more involved with this game or simply follow the community, joining the Luigi's Mansion series discord is a good place to start. There are many people there who can help answer questions as well. Here is a link to the Dark Moon channel: https://discord.gg/5XRHWsj
As long as your timer starts and ends correctly and you played all the missions except for the bonus in the mansion, then it counts. There's no file requirements or restrictions
Alright, so I've gone ahead and added the categories. I've also clarified the evidence requirements for all categories and levels. All existing runs are exempt from the requirements. I've also submitted my mansion times from my 2:47:15 NG+ run. Hopefully they are good enough to act as barriers for WR. Wouldn't be good if the Gloomy Manor WR was like an hour, otherwise a video would be needed for even average runs. I think they should be fine though
