North Carolina, USAPosting here what I came up with in regards to the frame differences between the NA & JP versions (For future reference). I counted the frames using FCEUX:
Cutscene 1 (After Rocksteady) = NA is 71 frames faster Cutscene 2 (After Dam) = JP is 237 frames faster Cutscene 3 (After Mechaturtle) = NA is 146 frames faster Cutscene 4 (After Mouser) = NA is 108 frames faster Cutscene 5 (After Technodrome) = JP is 178 frames faster
In total, JP version is 90 frames faster when comparing only the cutscenes. However, using current strats, there are enemy differences between the two versions in Area 1, causing the JP's Area 1 to be slower. The frog sub boss requires an extra hit and the frame difference here is in the 50's as a very rough estimate. The fire guy after the frog sub boss that is in the JP version also causes the player to lose about 30 frames as a rough estimate due to knockback (There is a way to despawn the fire guy, but I can't say how exactly it is done). These numbers vary from playthrough to playthrough depending on the quality of play. Maybe someone can post better numbers for these (It's very possible that I'm completely wrong also).
The time difference between the two versions appear to be much less than I had originally thought.
So here's what the mods (The ones that are on discord) have decided: No changes to the leaderboards at this time. The time difference is believed to be less than a second between the two versions and I think huhtikuu is the only one that runs the JP version.
Personally I think if the Japanese version ever becomes popular and the rankings get real close to each other, then something could change, but nothing at the moment.
I don't know if I ever said I won't be happy about it, but I do believe that there should be separate leaderboards. I have talked a little bit with huhtikuu already so it has been discussed. I just wanted to make a post here to summarize a few of my thoughts. I think if it there were just cutscene differences, I would be open to time conversions, but the different enemy spawns make it harder to do so. I would prefer there to be separate leaderboards, but I'm just one person. Other mods may have a different opinion.
I wouldn't mind being mod. I'm just not sure what is expected of one. I would like there to be some additional categories/category extensions as well as maybe cleaning up some of the forums, but I'm not sure what options are available in regards to that (Locking old unused threads an option?)
Thanks nesmaster, but not entirely true lol. As kissa said, it is tied to number of bombs that have been defused. There are actually a few spots I came across in the glitched Technodrome areas that trigger this wrong warp. They show up in specific spots at seemingly random times, all marked with an enemy floating in a single spot and not moving left or right.
The only way I see this warp being useful is somehow ceiling glitch in the first couple of areas and then somehow come across 8 of these floating enemies in a short amount of time. Probably not going to happen :)
One thing I've noticed the past few days when pressing select/start on Leo's weapon animation like in my 17:02 run: Bebop and Rocksteady's movement may indicate a Cave 1 Technodrome. When Bebop hangs around you and punches and Rocksteady is constantly charging you and jumping (See my 17:02 video for a visual) I seem to have a good shot at a Cave 1 spawn. Now this isn't the only pattern that gives Technodrome, but when I see this, I seem to get Technodrome in the 1st cave more often than not. Again, this isn't 100% tested as of yet, It's just what I've noticed lately. I'll be interested to know if others have similar success with those boss patterns.
For visual cues, I liked it when I could look at when the weapon swing is outside the box during the demo reel. That seemed the easiest to notice for me. Unfortunately I think Leo and Don are the only ones that have a noticeable weapon swing outside the box.
Let's Play "Guess the Correct Start Button Press"
Below is a link to an album of 6 different start button presses lined up beside each other taken from videos of console gameplay. There are 5 images, with each image corresponding to the next frame of each video. Guess which one gave me the best Technodrome spawn. I'll give you the answer once I get another good Technodrome press.
Is this useful to anyone? Maybe not, but wanted to have a little fun. I'm losing my mind over this crap and I'm starting to do dumb things like this.
Edit: Looking at it again, I can't even tell LUL
Edit 2: Top right #3
So this is what I've come up with so far in relation to the health bar vs Technodrome spawn. Screenshots were captured from gameplay recorded on console. I used VLC frame advance to get to the first frame where the health bar is red. If there is a better way that I should be doing this let me know.
There are 2 good spawns and one bad spawn at the link below. Each screenshot has a different bar missing. It doesn't mean that there is no correlation, I just think more runs need to be done to compare against before a verdict is made. If anyone else has screenshots, feel free to post them.
Thank you again Dave for investigating this!
I've gone back and forth in my head on this subject in the past 24 hrs. I don't consider myself a "speedrunner" since this is the only game I play in that manner, so I don't know what is considered OK and what is not with other games. I can't really decide to be honest. I think Kavoc summed up the thoughts I have pretty well. I do think it is considered a tool, but I also think the Technodrome spawn is an issue with the speedrun that can dissuade some runners, so a part of me wants to allow it. When Skunky said that he wouldn't feel like he "cheated" by using a metronome, I admit that I would feel like I would be cheating if I use it. It's a balancing act: How "pure" do want the run to be vs. growing the community by making it more accessible. I don't know the answer. I wish I did. Being my usual wishy-washy self, I'll go along with whatever the community decides.
Just thinking to myself: Would looking at a clock on the wall or a watch be considered a tool because that could possibly be used also. Technically yes, but should we and how can we prevent runners from using them?
Yet another death warp strat for Area 3. There are two runs of it included in the video. The first is with 1 bar of health and the second is with a half bar of health. As of now I prefer the 1 bar method as it is a little safer and it saves virtually the same amount of time. It saves a second over running back over to the robot enemy to be captured. When using a half bar, the robot head can "capture" you before getting the missiles, ending the run. If this was already discovered, please disregard. I haven't seen anyone do it this way yet, though.
This strat will be good to use when you do not receive a weapon drop for Mike. I would also use this strat over the flying robot head from the bottom floor that I posted in the first video on this thread.
If I had a vote, I would be interested to see one of the Raphael runs be a category. If I had to lean one way or the other, it would be Raph No Subweapons. Can't say I will run it, but would be interested to see what others can do.
Here's a few small strats that I wanted to post. I don't know if any of these are known as of yet but maybe there's something in here that can help you out. Thanks to Skunky48 for the second part of the airport level boosts.
The Area 3 part is good to use if you don't get a weapon drop for Mike. I don't think it's as quick as using a subweapon, but it is slightly quicker than running all the way back to the 2nd floor robot for the death warp (~ 1/2 sec. quicker)
The airport part is tougher to time because sometimes you get lag with the boomerangs but I would guess it could be another 1/2 sec. time save.
The technodrome hallway strat keeps you from having to wait for the jetpack guys to shoot their lasers. I want to say this was already known by someone out there but I don't know if I dreamed that up. It's something I haven't thought about until just a few days ago. This is roughly a 3/4 to 1 sec time save.
Ouch that hurt me. That has happened to us before where he teleports behind you. Very good run though, with the exception of the beetle :)
I've thought about that too. I think I looked into it a while back but I don't remember what I came up with. I didn't time it extensively.
If I'm thinking about it correctly, the time you lose by going into the building to get the scrolls and leaving/death warp needs to be less than the time you save with the mechaturtle fight and going the shorter route in the airport.
You'll also be able to save hits on all the boomerang guys and fireguys that are blocking your way and/or sub bosses in the later parts of Area 3 and Airport. I'm thinking there are at least 7 enemies like that where you currently do not have the scroll weapons for.
But on the negative side, that's a long ways to go to avoid weapon drops. I feel like it's almost guaranteed you'll come across at least one drop. Also by killing some of those boomerang/fire guys you might affect the enemy sets in some of the levels.
I've blabbered long enough. I'm just writing down my stream of thoughts. I won't be trying to investigate that path you suggested yet but I might in the future, but would like to hear from someone who might know more about it.
Do you want an extended map of the first area of the Techndodrome? You don't? Oh well...
I took the base map made by Chiasm @ http://www.vgmaps.com and added screenshots (which is why the new portions are blurry) from my gameplay.
Any gaps you see are probably from areas that have walls or I was unable to get to due to the game locking up.
Not much use but I thought some may be interested in what is in those glitched areas. If you look at it, you may notice that there is a place in the bottom left part of the map where you can do a ceiling glitch that is similar to the 2nd ceiling glitch in the Technodrome. It takes forever to get there due to the game slowing down, but I did do the glitch there once. It leads down a rabbit hole to more rooms and glitched areas, but I'm not going to try and explore those.
It's not perfect, but I'm happy with how it came out given that I haven't done anything like this before and I have very little knowledge with photo editing software.
