A quick note: The version terminologies Daren uses (Original/Botched) are not what we use; also you imply those are "the useful versions worth running." Those names and that idea are relevant to the leaderboard you host, which as you know Daren, takes a much more purist philosophy than the one here on srcom. But those names and that idea aren't currently applicable to this website. To submit onto this leaderboard, the rules and version names here are the ones that apply.

To me, the simple summary is that we have a different ruleset than you think we should. It's ok for us to agree to disagree, and by extension, it's ok for you to host your own leaderboard as a result.

Speaking to all sides: the tangents about "PS hate" are irrelevant. Runners' biases toward PS or PC don't affect the rules as written. PC is dealt with separately from PS; this is very unlikely to change. There is no malice or ill intent in that fact: it's a product of inherent differences between the platforms as well as the compatibility and accessibility issues with modern PCs and old TR games. To hopefully be more clear, here's a general statement regarding this and other "classic" TRs: The specific rules and discussions regarding one platform may be completely irrelevant when discussing another platform.

So to confirm the final, definite answer to the original request asking for permission to mod PS files: "No, it is not ok." The answer to "Why?": doing so violates this leaderboard's PS platform rules; that fact remains irregardless of this leaderboard's PC platform rules.

Mod note: This started as a question which has received a definitive answer both before and after the leaderboard revamp; the answer is now directly backed by current rules. The thread will remain open for on-topic discussions, but if tangents or ad hominems continue, the thread will be locked.

This thread has now re-opened. Please review the new rules and the version swapper resource's documentation before continuing discussions.

This thread has now re-opened. Please review the new rules and the version swapper resource's documentation before continuing discussions.

This thread has now re-opened. Please review the new rules and the version swapper resource's documentation before continuing discussions.

Because this post has been viewed a decent bit, I will go ahead and provide direct answers here, but I will also encourage anyone in a similar position to OP to join our Discord server.

1. For the most part, Stella's excellent guides are correct throughout the classic TRs. There are a few edge cases where there are actually more/less enemies than what Stella's guide states, so no, it is not a completely reliable resource to perform 100% speedruns. But yes, we do have those statistics and we could share whatever specific stats you need; we have some spreadsheet resources on here and Discord.

2. It is an in-game bug, grenade launcher kills are doubly counted. When performing/verifying 100% runs, the player/moderator has to do a little extra work and/or memorization to be sure all enemies were killed.

3. If you are asking about version history and information, this is available in TXT files in the version archive we distribute. (At the time of writing this post, links to said archive is only available through Discord but will soon be available in a newer resource linked on this site.)

4. Full-game segmented runs are ranked based off of the IGT from the end-game stats screen; select View rules while looking at the Segmented tab on the leaderboard for a complete description of Segmented-specific rules.

Per my reply to this thread: https://www.speedrun.com/tr2/thread/48a28

I'll be temporarily locking discussions related to rules. They'll be unlocked and discussions can carry on after rules changes, etc. take effect.

We're currently refactoring rules and rewording parts of them; many resources and/or forum posts may change, and/or new ones may be added. (No exact date for the rollout, but hopefully pretty soon.)

For these reasons, I'd prefer to stall questions regarding reasons behind current rules. Hopefully after said changes, things will be much clearer for both askers and answerers. (There's also the possibility of a current answer or rule becoming invalid after the changes, which could cause more confusions.)

Feel free to message me on Discord if you'd like to discuss anything further. Until said changes have been made, I'll be locking these kinds of threads per my parenthetical statement above.

No, it is not ok.

~~(From an outside perspective (non-runner), I'd generally say do what makes the game more accessible and playable to majority of people. If the issue is that you need to make a rule and only allow one framerate for all runners, then I'd say go with the low number, providing a link to the tool you mentioned as a resource if runners' monitors don't support 25 FPS.

Personally, I'd prefer to see an "as you like" mindset, meaning if the player wants to run at higher FPS, they can go for it -- if they wanna restrict FPS so as to perform other tricks, they can go for it. Of course, I would imagine that switching monitor rates mid-run would be illegal, so they'd have to make the conscious choice before starting a run. This brings up the issue of distinguishing high- and low-FPS runs...

If you don't separate low- and high-FPS runs on leaderboards (via category, sub-category, w/e), then likely what will happen is anyone new will gravitate toward whatever the top run's settings are -- meaning if top run is high FPS, they'll try running with Vsync off, or vice versa and setting their monitor to 25 FPS with the tool, if needed. Here, the playing field will be "even" as you'll be allowed to run any way you'd like, but there will be some people restricted from running high-FPS runs. Unfortunately, that's just going to happen, but you say low-FPS run will be faster anyway, so I guess this is not much of an issue.

If you do create low- and high-FPS disctinctions on leaderboards -- well, I just don't see that as a good idea, personally. Any% is generally known as "fastest way to run a game" but if you have Any% Low FPS and Any% High FPS (for naming example), that's different. That being said, I'm not an active speedrunner of the game, so it's not fair for me to declare what is best for its community, obviously -- this separation may in fact bring interest for runners old and new to run the game in different ways.

To answer the core question of your post: "Should we allow people to add a framerate of 25hz [if needed] and begin allowing low fps tricks?" Yes, I think you should, because the tool allows anyone to do it and it's not a game 'mod' -- it's a hardware 'compatibility' fix. In addition, I also think you should continue allowing high-FPS runs as well, instead of having one specific FPS requirement. In the event high-FPS runs somehow rule (seems unlikely as you say low FPS tricks would be faster overall), runners who can't play at high framerates will be left out, but no more harm is being done, since that's status quo -- but they may have a potentially "Low FPS" category as even grounds if you go that route.But if the runners want to eliminate that disparity entirely and just require low framerate, that's understandable, as that decision would truly even the playing field. Personally, I believe in allowing a runner to run the game with high or low fps as they prefer.

Some big questions regarding this: How will this affect leaderboard categories/sub-categories, if at all? If all runs are required to use low FPS, what happens to runs on leaderboards featuring high FPS?)~~

Edit: Seems I completely misunderstood the functionality of the tool. It doesn't "lock" your FPS, but allows you to add extra options. You could still switch FPS using in-game options mid-run. So most of my ramble about categories, etc. was null.

My main answer of "Yes, I think you should, because the tool allows anyone to do it and it's not a game 'mod' -- it's a hardware 'compatibility' fix" still applies.

But now I believe the follow-up question is if you were to allow low FPS tricks, should you keep allowing high FPS tricks (because then that would be unfair to people who can't run the high FPS tricks if it's all together in one category)? And the point about what to do with leaderboard runs featuring high-FPS tricks still stands.

Perhaps as a solution, you'd want to have a category or a "flag" when a runner makes a submission indicating they use tricks over XX framerate, or something else to that effect. I don't agree with capping the game for everyone, as that makes it less entertaining. But to make it "fair," it'd be nice to have some sort of marker to distinguish runs with restricted vs. unrestricted FPS usage.