EnglandWhy? You'd just spam Tail Whip on the Rival fight in the lab, it wouldn't make for an interesting run at all.
Hey. In terms of the Switch and the PC versions, there has not really been much, if any, discussion on them. I could add them as a separate category to this game forum dependent on differences and whether the Royal Knight Digimon are used or not, as that is afaik the main difference between those versions and the PS4 version.
The screen fading out is a method of manipulating the RNG during a duel. You start a 3D battle by pressing square instead of X to attack, and then cancel out of the 3D battle animation straight away, which (I believe) prevents the RNG from advancing a certain number of times, caused by the animation of the regular card attack i.e. the slash and card going up in flames.
The thing happening at 1:02:05 is a minor graphical glitch caused by using the fast disk speed option on a PS2. It is purely cosmetic and has no effect on the game.
Just going to update this by saying that aaaa's new WR of 2:40:43 does not use turbo and is therefore the undisputed best time. I will leave this topic up as a reminder that turbo is not allowed still in any game under the Digimon series.
Recently it has come to light that aaaa_5656's WR run utilised the turbo function on a 3rd party controller. As the run is currently by far the fastest run on the leaderboard, it would seem inappropriate to remove the run based off of this usage, as the time turbo saves would not put it faster than any other run on the leaderboard, the decision has been taken to grandfather the run. However a note has been made on the comment on the run, and any future submissions that utilises turbo will be rejected regardless of time. Apologies this has not been dealt with sooner.
Thank you.
Hi! As this is a game that's been added, but frankly I really don't know a whole lot about, i'll add you as a regular mod and then you can add the other cups and submit any runs you do for them. Please do consult me if you want to make any major changes to the leaderboards however. Thanks!
@CaptNikolai Please do not assume that we are inactive if you have made no attempt to contact any of us (Discord would be the best option, though it seems that you've left the Digimon speedrunning channel, Twitter is also a good option though). Thanks.
Essentially just +1ing what KHeartz said. As he said, 100% is a subjective goal for a game like this. The closest clear cut definition I could see would be getting all trophys (Platinum trophy run), and if a run of this were to be performed in an RTA setting, then I would not have any objections to adding it to the leaderboards (albeit a discussion may have to happen as to whether it would be a main or misc category). Thanks.
Pretty much going to exactly repeat GMS' post as my own personal "vote". Would also like to add I would be in favour of removing the flag entirely as well.
Veemon deck is by far the strongest to use. Look out for really good drops (red cards, ToyAgumon, etc.) Learn how to fuse cards that may be useful for the "A" battle, such as ToyAgumon, Psychemon etc. Usually past Flame City, enemies will always go for a lethal attack (whichever move will knock your HP to 0, usually the O move), there are exceptions sometimes though. The AI is weird. Beginner City and Flame City seems random. Make sure to get the Digiegg of Courage which allows you to use Flamedramon, and make sure to equip your partner Veemon with strong abilities before Igloo city (2x damage to water is really helpful here) To add on to the prior point, make sure to add all D-Otamamon and Meramon to your deck when going through Igloo City. It's by far the hardest part of the game so don't be discouraged if you lose multiple runs there.
Cant think of too much more than that. You'll see top runners use Japanese because the text is slightly faster, but English isn't that much slower if you're more comfortable with that. Good luck!
Nice, added to resources in case anybody wants to use it as a reference.
With the RTA minus time bonus timing method being used for all submitted runs, mods need to spend a lot of time ensuring that the time of your run on the leaderboard is completely accurate. Just need to be patient.
Yeah you're right Archina, I've changed the rules accordingly.
Locking this thread now, if you have any further queries please post them on the Digimon speedrunning discord, located below, or message me there personally (Kyutora#7592).
Discord link: https://discord.gg/ThnXGG5
Thanks everybody!
Alright so a decision has been made as to what to do with the categories. Essentially we're going with 3 categories, with one of them having a split in.
- No Major Glitches. This will be the main category and the first to show up on the leaderboards. This will disallow the iusage of textbox storage entirely. Piximon glitch will likely be allowed in this category, as it does not cause any detrimental effects such as crashing by regular means in the speedrun.
- Any%. Allows the use of all glitches.
- 100 Prosperity Points. This will have a sub-category split of Major Glitches/No Major Glitches (likely that NMG will be the first to show, though that may change and likely won't matter regardless).
The relevant changes are pictured here: https://gyazo.com/9f25a81008bc78bc156374fe970783aa . Though the screengrab does not show it, all 100 PP speedruns have been moved to the "No Major Glitches" sub-category. All current Any% speedruns have been moved to the "No Major Glitches" category, and though there is currently no true Any% time submitted, Raikou is going to submit a PB for that category when he is satisfied enough with the time he gets.
This removes any arbitrary lines being drawn as to what is allowed and what is not. 100PP for the major glitches sub-category, you will be allowed to use glitch items to set any trigger possible, provided that all 100 points are gained legitimately (think what Azure said like OoT 100% where you can write items into your inventory, but must still obtain them from their source). Any NMG ruleset will not allow the textbox storage glitch to be used whatsoever, including Birdramon wrong warps.
The decision was made when it was realised that there really is no merit to 50 PP glitched being on a leaderboard. One thing I neglected to think about was that 50 PP does not mean anything when it isn't Any%, which the glitches essentially make void anyway. As much as I personally like the benefits of adding some glitches to the category and disallowing others, it doesn't really have a place on any leaderboard. I will still likely route and do runs of it just for fun, but they won't be submitted in any case. Maybe if others do the same, it could be placed as a misc category (Any% no waterfall skip or something like that? idk) but it's very unlikely.
Another factor is that for the glitched category rulesets, as there are parts of the glitch where not even Bizhawk can accurately emulate the glitch, emulator runs will be completely prohibited from being submitted to those boards. They will still be able to submit on the NMG boards under the same rulesets that they always have been however.
I want to thank everybody for their contributions to the thread and that the points you have brought up were crucial in this discussion taking place. This has been a difficult decision but I hope what has been decided is sufficient and is a good enough compromise for all of the opinions given in this thread.
P.S. I would also like to give a personal thank you to BlackWin5 and KHeartz who have given their opinions, despite stepping down from their moderator status. Both opinions have been heavily considered, and I would like to take this time to thank them for everything they have done for the leaderboards. AzureFlame4 has also recently become active and has given his opinion which has also helped greatly in the discussion.
Was meant to make this post last night but I was super tired.
@Kakori I really don't see the point in having 4 categories, especially as there won't be a huge amount of difference between "Any% No Major Glitches" and "Any% 50PP" (using that name as others have suggested it). It also doesn't address that 100PP would also need to be split if we were to do this, meaning there would actually have to be 5 categories, where two of these categories seem pointless, with NMG not being hugely different and 100PP NMG likely suffering the same fate, while being inferior as a category in general. I don't want to speak for Raikou, but I know I'd personally never run 100PP NMG, and would be surprised if anybody would if they were to be split. Same goes for Any% NMG, as the nature of what the glitches allow (with the proposed rulesets) only improves the category in both cases.
@Blackwin5 I don't really see the "Gabumon%" argument being valid in this case. The thing about the Gabumon category is that it would offer zero gameplay differences to a normal Agumon run, especially as Bakemon is the standard now and would not even offer routing differences. I understand why a category shouldn't be on a leaderboard just because it's "fun", though I feel if it were to offer significant enough gameplay differences while still completing the game, it does warrant a category. I don't feel it would be difficult to explain to an outsider that although the glitch is activated in the same way, the effects are different. Other communities have done this, look at ALttP where the majority of the glitched categories ban EG (exploration glitch) but allow OoB (out of bounds) even though the former can only be triggered via the latter, purely from how trivial the run becomes when using EG.
@veeshadow If I'm understanding your posts correctly, you're saying to limit the amount of RNG manipulation done by the player? If that is the case, I'm +1ing what Archina has said regarding this. I should also point out that RNG manipulation has never been considered a glitch by anybody and that just because this both this glitch and RNG manipulation in runs post-Freezeland requires S+Q does not mean they should be lumped together. You mentioned puwexil's Chrono Trigger runs, though what you need to understand is that those runs are done by him to resemble what the game USED to be like to speedrun, hence why if you look at the Chrono Trigger leaderboards that category is not on there, nor is there a category for "No RNG Manip". It's simply a "legacy" ruleset for his own personal enjoyment, which is fine but does not deserve a place on a leaderboard.
@Archina That is a really good point you brought up about the Piximon glitch, not just for the argument you brought up but also it's classification as a major or minor glitch. For the argument you brought up, it would likely be better to define it as banning the use of glitch items to gain prosperity points, rather than stating that all the prosperity points must be gained from their natural source. I don't really see the need of banning the Piximon glitch if the decision is made to allow the text storage glitch. On the flip side, if the decision is made for the NMG category, I'm of the opinion that the Piximon glitch IS a major glitch and would likely be banned, which is why I think that No Major Glitches is an arbitrary term itself, as others may disagree and say that the Piximon glitch should not be considered a major glitch. Perhaps a name like "Any% No Text Storage" or something along those lines might be better in this case, or as others have said "Any% 50PP", which encompasses both if the glitches are banned or allowed.
With regards to the emulator point Syd has raised, I believe we can do one of four options (feel free to suggest any others if you feel there are more suitable ones)
- Disallow the use of emulator entirely (though this would be the easiest and safest option, it would severely limit both competition and make the entry barrier to this game far higher)
- Allow the use of ePSXe, but prohibit it from using the glitch entirely (would also limit competition, though it would allow beginners to put runs up, it's arbitrary but not too dissimilar to banning s+q)
- Allow the use of Bizhawk that would be able to utilise the glitch [as far as I'm aware, Bizhawk emulates the glitches correctly, the issue being the load times would cause a huge rift in times between both console and prior emulated runs (on ePSXe). Using Bizhawk may also allow for save and quits to be allowed, as although they are slightly faster, it does not come with the inaccuracies of ePSXe.]
- Combine options 2 and 3.
I guess on this topic it would make sense to discuss this as well, so let me know your guys' thoughts. I'll also make a post tomorrow evening on some of the responses I've seen but I'm kinda tired tonight so I'll leave this post with just the emulation issues for now (opening another can of worms here lmao).
Edit: Should say that it's likely any existing emulator runs will likely be grandfathered in regardless of outcome.
My issue with that Geta, is that I'd say that the "major glitch" aspect is the stacking of the textboxes themselves, not just being limited to the glitched shops, as functionally the menus work the same as the Birdramon warps but have different outcomes, i.e. buying/selling items you aren't supposed to normally and warping to places you aren't supposed to (please correct me if that is wrong). So essentially a "no major glitches" run would be identical to what is on the current any% leaderboards at the moment. So it wouldn't make sense to me for that category and 100pp to have differing rulesets.
Something that could maybe be considered is a sweeping ban on the use of glitch items for those two categories, as afaik you're unable to do the glitch recruitments or waterfall skip without them, but can still take advantage of the X-Bandage in the case of 100pp?
