Whoa there's comment section now? Congrats on the sub 2~!

When is a decision going to be made in regards to this, it has been over a month and while yeah you can manip beast fangs off seto 1, shadi, etc. etc. there is NOTHING preventing that in the rules right now so if GCAH or someone wants to go and win triple beast fangs manipped but not obvious off shadi and get a sub 2 time with 'no manip' be my guest, as it is currently allowed in this ruleset that we currently have and if we split the categories you can do it there as well since, again, we can't invalidate a run based on obscene 'luck'. Or we can just remove the RNG manip flag entirely and lump all runs together and go with that.

Is there a way to run a poll on these forums or would we simply tally votes by hand. If so I vote to split the categories.

Split the leaderboards into subcategories. It makes things more clear in terms of world record, 2nd place, etc. etc. for the categories that are by all rights different from each other as the nature of each speedrun is vastly different between manipped runs and non manipped runs, yes one is faster that we can agree on, however, one is the run of frame perfect inputs and the other is the run of dueling as much as you can as quickly as possible to earn a critical mass of drops that enable you to beat the final 6 more consistently. Only reason I'd be against a split in the leaderboards at this point is if the WR times for both categories were at least close time wise but an hour and a half is a significant difference.

In terms of rules for a hypothetical non manip category, since that's the only place we would need any sort of rules outside the obvious ones (no trading, card duping, etc. etc.) I think the following would be a good baseline though I'm open to the idea of more.

Ban the use of eon timer/flow timer in non manip attempts No hard resetting the console/emulator in the middle of a run No 3D dueling allowed

I'm not sure if a rule should be implemented at all in regards to doing X random sorts and such, because it seems ridiculous to enforce in any way so should be left out of the ruleset.

I'm in favor of splitting the categories personally, one for RNG manip one for legacy % or whatever you want to call it.

I would see the categories split. Intent is the driving force in this. To me this is no different than no thtd% vs. any% ncd that often uses THTD as a lynchpin to beat the game. Intent is what divides the two categories. It is fairly easy to split the two categories into runs that use RNG manipulation and those that do not, as runs that use the manipulation to get meteor b. dragon off heishin 1 reset the console/emulator. A lot. Runs that don't rarely, if ever reset and the only reason they would reset the console/emulator that I can think of is if dark hole completely locked up their console/emulator and they had to reset to continue the run, but even when dark hole has stopped by fat ps2 it has never locked it up completely sure I would lose 10-15 seconds of time due to waiting for the duel to progress as normal but it wouldn't freeze/lock me out completely.

I side with Cyberdemon531. Easiest way to determine which category is being ran is by stream title declaring whether you're using manipulation or not as well as what transpires during the course of a run. Resets of the console/emulator followed by deliberate waiting with the intent to get a specific drop off a specific duelist are naturally any% ncd manipulation attempts. Runs that don't do that are any% ncd no card manipulation/NCM attempts.

Also of note, the game played with RNG manipulation versus played without is different on a great many levels. For one thing there is no skill in farming with manipulation; you simply pull off a frame perfect trick, get the MBD you desire, move on with the run. If you don't manipulate the game so that heishin 1 drops a meteor b. dragon, you have a great many paths you can go down in terms of ways you can build your deck via farming in terms of weighing risk/reward of what can be dropped based on who you choose to duel. It isn't just get 3 MBDs, go and run through the game, hope to get lucky on final 7 as with the manipulation it is more common to go with final 7 instead of final 6, forgoing seto 2 entirely. Just another difference.

There is also nothing remotely fun, to me, about using manipulation to beat the game as fast as possible with 3 MBDs that you get as a result of manipulation. In terms of entertainment value to viewers and runners there is nothing quite like getting an MBD drop on meadow mage SA pow or a crush card off any number of duelists.