Hello,

I'm sorry but why was my glitchless submission rejected exactly?
https://www.speedrun.com/tr2/run/zp027rnm

There are runs with a german executable and english audio on the leaderboards: https://www.speedrun.com/tr2/run/yo27wdjz

Likewise, I've seen TR1 runs with the same ruleset running with mods to play with the PS1 soundtrack that doesn't even exist on PC: https://www.speedrun.com/tr1/run/yj4lo1ny

I am not sure I understand the application of these rules exactly. Could someone give some information about it so other runners also know do's and don'ts?

At the end of Diving Area the dialogue is in German. During the shower cutscene, Dialogue is in Japanese. Why is that?

Seeing in as you used my PB as an example. I want to make it clear that I have not modified any of the audio files in my Tomp 2 installation. When I ran souls for the first time, the audio was in English. No changes were made to make the audio be in English.

Ati patch is used for tr1 as dosbox is not stable enough for a huge manjority of people to run the game wich is obviously not the case here. Here it's purposely changing the game audio when there is no need to wich is not what japi did.

Hmm, the ATI patch doesn't contain any sound files for me:
http://web.archive.org/web/20081121063015/http://ftp.eidos-france.fr/pub/fr/tomb_raider/patches/tombatiragepro.zip

The glrage runtime has an option to mod the game though (disabled on default):
https://github.com/ata4/glrage/blob/master/glrage_patch/TombRaiderPatch.cpp#L384

So is it cool to mix in tracks from other versions/platforms for those people and not for me?

Are you abusing the loosely defined rules to reject unwanted runs?

Daren

This is the link in which people will patch TR1 so it can run better on more modern Operating Systems.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=932208684
This patch also contains the music files.

Dude, your run is not being rejected out of spite or anything malicious for that matter.
No one is treated favourably over another, everyone is treated equally.

I'll ask my question again
At the end of Diving Area the dialogue is in German. During the shower cutscene, Dialogue is in Japanese. Why is that?

As l understand allowing game files is to make music work on EPC. Not being silly and put every version together as here has been done which is very unnecessry. Tr1 has a patch which was agreed to be used. Im using manual patch when we didnt know about automated one yet afaik. And l have not changed any setting since patching because thats how l was told.

We recommand an ati patch including soundtracks for tr1 for more than a year so it's normal it is acceptable for board.

You can insinuate everything you want but if anyone else would've submited that it would have been refused aswell, i encourage you to do another run respecting a bit more rules to realise there is no conspiracy and that you're welcome to submit every legit run you wish.
I know it can be a bit discouraging having a pb refused but don't give up!

So using english audio on a german game .exe is fine, but using german and japanese audio on an english .exe isn't? I'm sorry but I still can't follow the logic here.

Also who defines what is unnecessary?

This guy?
> Makeal 19-Apr-18 11:22
> my game is good, setup is in german, fmvs in english and menu in french ?

Or where in the rules is that 'unnecessary' term defined?

I just own too many versions and got things messed up.
I don't know exactly what I did but the game works ?

I have steam version and lve tired ukbox and german/EPC. its same background in main menu and game is in english everytime after clean installs. We have allowed to get exe what u prefer and put it into installation folder. We have had epc and uk box now months with clear instructions how to use them. U know mixing game audio from english to german to japanese is wrong, everyone knows.

DarenK did not submit his run with intention to test mods. Its just that he left our community in past due to different view on rules and now he thinks he is being treated differently than other runners.

From what I can see, it seems like rules clarification is needed, but thats up to active mods, I am no longer active here.

I do think the rules need to be more explicit

So, is there a complete list of what is ok and what isn't? All I did was what I've already seen in other runs that are listed on these leaderboards.

So at what point doing something like this considered "unnecessary", "wrong", etc.? It should be very clear somewhere in the ruleset, but I am unable to find it. I mean these are the "official" leaderboards. I'd like to have my run listed there.

Also posting this here for clarification and also that it can spread:

Ok let's make it clear and it will be my last post:

Rules mention it's fine to mix files to make the game works.
You can run every versions without any problem and we all know it.
"Mods used:
- Ultra Panavision 70 patch for more vision
- Deleted FMV directory so I don't have to skip them
- German OK Marco audio
- Japanese shower scene audio
- US main menu background image
- German tombpc.dat
- Floating Islands file from the Eidos Premier Collection version"
So is that necessary and wrong from someone being able to run the game normaly? i let basic principles common sense answer that question.

You obviously purposely made your game this way to create some drama and insult this community to get some attention so don't expect that run (wich is breaking rules) on board and don't expect us talking about rules change or whatever. We vote for rules and people are fine with that, unless people want change your run doesn't belong on this board as it is clearly and purposely going against those rules.
I won't add anything more as there is nothing more to be said about that.

Rules state that it's totally ok to mix files from different versions as long as it doesn't change gameplay, and patching the Floating Islands file was explicitly only a recommendation in the archive provided in the Discord. So with that in place, currently basically anything that runs is perfectly fine for speedrunning. Nowhere is it mentioned that unnecessary mixing files is breaking the rules as you state. I don't know how anyone with some basic intellect can come to that conclusion with the wording of the rule.

I actually didn't want to cause any drama, as I honestly thought this run would be accepted just like other runs on the leaderboards that used mods and mixed game files for some reason, and that there wouldn't be any ground to reject this one.

I am insulting this community? How exactly did I insult the community? I pointed a lot of things out that I think are wrong. I think people like you make the community look very embarrassing.

Like being the guy mixing versions like a mad man half a year ago...
> Makeal 19-Apr-18 11:22
> my game is good, setup is in german, fmvs in english and menu in french ?

... and suddenly, although nothing really changed, being against the very thing he defended all this time. I can't be the only one that finds this absolutely ridiculous and hypocritical.

Oh I don't expect any rule change, as this community is going even more downhill as I could have possibly imagined. So yeah, just keep on modding guys, don't be open about it and don't ask any questions seems to be the name of the game here.

"Official" leaderboards with seemingly no integrity whatsoever.

Daren do you think people believe for one second that you didn't intend to cause drama? Episode 2 is literally called "TR drama episode 2" and you've always been about running games as originally as you possibly can. Why have you suddenly thrown all of your principles out the window??

By the way, can someone point me to a list of files with their checksums that belongs to the UK Box .exe? I don't own this version which is why I used the .exe from the archive together with files from other versions.

Surely someone in this big community owns this version and can give some information about the files that belong to this version to play it correctly so people don't get their runs rejected for this reason. Thanks in advance.

Per my reply to this thread: https:/​/​www.​speedrun.​com/​tr2/​thread/​48a28

I'll be temporarily locking discussions related to rules. They'll be unlocked and discussions can carry on after rules changes, etc. take effect.

This thread has now re-opened. Please review the new rules and the version swapper resource's documentation before continuing discussions.