In the interest of this, I'd also be interested in trickless runs, though that might be more of a category extension

yknow what if you do 100% feel free to submit as 2 player lmao that's absurd enough already I could add a all cup tour co-op category too

Hey there!

As for Grand Prix speedruns, all you need is just to time your run using a timer such as Livesplit (or just a stopwatch). Timing begins on starting the run, and ends on finishing the last race of the cup. This is called RTA or Real Time

At the end of your run, in the game itself, it will display your IGT (In Game Time). Feel free to add this to your submission as well.

Proof is not necessary until top 10 times :)

Hi, I'm the new mod here

I've checked the runs with wrong IGT and fixed those accordingly. If there's any wrong IGTs or RTA timing, feel free to let me know in this thread and I'll have a look at it. Thank you :)

not to mention there's also a sticky thread called "NEW MKDD DISCORD" here on this forum :)

Please see the mod note :) [[mod note: Video link was just a link to youtube, next time if including video, include an actual link.]]

[quote] So I don't think it's right to say that we can't have a new category because people might want their times on a different leaderboard, because you only need to change your perspective a bit to see that that already happened with z-tech. [/quote] You already mention one of the reasons why I think it's different -- The fact that there are no z-tech runs in the Standard category right now, and that there are in the unrestricted. Considering the majority's opinion we had to make the split as a new tech was born. You can't really argue that it's the same as adding a new category for a new tech when in the beginning, shortcuts were already in contention with this category. Everyone who has submitted did so knowing that they're competing against this. Not competing against z-tech (or potential future advances). You saying that you'd prefer unrestricted is something you can do right now and you can delete your times in the other category if you'd like. Same for other people who would've preferred that -- But you'd have to know about z-tech in order to feel that way regardless, which means you'd be active enough to make this choice. With shortcut and glitchless being added, people might've wanted to post in a different one right from the start.

[quote]One quick side note to that is that I didn't see much official discussion about which would be the main category[/quote] Well there's [quote]poll results afterwards showed the majority would've wanted this[/quote] There's been a discussion on it for weeks whether or not to split z-tech into something new, and it's been thoroughly discussed in the discord. We've constantly mentioned a new category that many people don't want to compete with. This implies that the Unrestricted category is the new and separate one from the one with all the times. That was also one of the issues we were talking about and how moving them over wouldn't really be fair. So to say that there wasn't much official discussion is wrong because there clearly was, but you were one of the only few arguing against it.

[quote]Thanks for reading, I know I've been on about this for a while now but I think this is a good compromise 🙂[/quote] No offense, but it's hardly a compromise when this is literally what category extensions are for, hence why I brought it up.

[quote]I brought this up in the discord server a while ago, but my idea was shot down because people seemed to think that the creation of that new category wouldn't be feasible, that it was impossible to create the new category because of rules about where players might want their runs on the leaderboards. I only just read the site's rules about stuff like this, and it seems like there isn't actually anything wrong with it

feel free to read: https://www.speedrun.com/knowledgebase/moderation-rules[/quote] I've carefully read your message and I'd like to address a few things.

First of all, putting it as if we simply shut you down because of site rules is very misleading and inaccurate, so let me lay it down:

The problem with adding a glitchless category is that there are current runs that would actually fall into the category, contrary to not a single run on the Standard leaderboard having z-tech in it. Because of this, having a glitchless category would be extremely confusing, and as moving over people's runs goes against many things: Some people wouldn't want their time on a different leaderboard, it wouldn't be accurate, and it would make the main category a messy combination of both. Whatever the site says is allowed is not necessarily whatever we need to abide by. And thus you rightly mention that it at the very least should be an empty start -- But that goes against the first point again.

To discuss all the current shortcuts:

• Mushroom Cup: None
• Flower Cup:

• Mushroom Bridge affects only the top 3 really. Ideas has a #7 time with it but it's such a difficult trick to get down consistently to be able to grind flower at the same time that only top level is affected as it makes much more sense to grind down other timesaves before attempting to master this skip to squeeze out more timesave.
• Waluigi Stadium's skip has the opposite difficulty level where it's incredibly easy to learn, yet is also a small timesave. I could see not wanting to do it but again it's a small difference in the run.

• Star Cup:

• Mushroom City skip you could do with babies or grinding it out and somehow getting it with barrel train first try and being able to get a great run on top of that. It really isn't happening as of yet and it'll be difficult to actually grind it out and get a great run on top of it.

• Special Cup:

• Wario Colosseum skip no one has done yet because it's completely impractical to do in such a way that saves time, and get a good run on top of that.
• Bowser's Castle is really the only shortcut that has a large impact on the run. But because it is so difficult to do, not many people actually use the shortcut until you get to top level. The old and easy version of the skip with a blue shell gets used pretty early on however.

So in the end, it really comes down to Bowser's Castle only, and the players at the very top having to consider mushroom bridge skip for flower cup, not even attempting it in all cup tour.

To me it feels like the only real point of adding glitchless would be to try for WR, not any competition. We already can't move the times over as it's impossible to tell if video-less runs did waluigi skip or not for example. So the only competition would probably be the top players who actually deal with shortcuts the most, and thus, a small competition for the fastest time. If there's anyone else interested in playing without these shortcuts specifically, feel free to let me know, but to me it seems more like a novelty more fit for a category extension rather than an actual competition.

[quote]people have said the ztech completely changes how the game is played, and at the end of the day i have to agree, but shortcuts, in my opinion, are much more impactful. [/quote] The problem is that z-tech can affect literally any track in the game, shortcut or not. The sheer timesave isn't also comparable to top level, as for some, z-tech might save 20 seconds, for others, maybe 60 seconds. It's more about the manner which it does it, and there's already been a discussion on this and how it affects the game and its driving.

[quote]Not only that, but the shortcut is very hard, as are some other shortcuts, and in a way that is definitely different from normal driving, and i think could be scaring players away from running the category, seeing if they get to top level they'd have to do all these shortcuts.[/quote] "All these shortcuts" seems to be really pushing it, considering if you look at it, only Mushroom Bridge and Bowser seem to have an impact, with Mushroom Bridge not even being applied to all cup tour as of yet. The driving on Mushroom Bridge and Bowser's Castle gets compromised, but with z-tech, driving on at least a majority of tracks (can) get compromised, offering a way more different experience compared to adding shortcuts.

I can definitely look into creating an MKDD category extensions page and adding glitchless there, along with some other runs such as shine thief. As for now, I don't think adding glitchless to the main board is warranted.

I'll crosspost my thoughts here on the forum, but the gross of this discussion with majority and core of the community is done in the MKDD Discord.

First of all, to clarify some details:

• The inputs and driving are extremely simple, optimizing is a bit of a frame game.
• It seems like you can have around 51 (!) seconds of constant shroom usage.
• You can stall the shroom use by constantly switching. The timer is 300, each perfectly timed switch is -1
• SwareJonge estimates that on a perfect spree you can get 60 shrooms out of 1 golden shroom

You can use this technique on almost every track, and I'm currently estimating it's optimally faster on 9/16 tracks, maybe more or less depending on execution and bag speed.

Now what does this do?

• It allows for the majority of track, especially with a bunch of offroad to be "driven" faster to EXTREMELY fast (DDD 1:16)

Now you might say that's comparable to an ultra shortcut, but what are the differences? USCs are a lot more difficult to do and require a good grasp of the mechanics. Luck is also generally not involved.

With this trick, it's the flipside. Skill is way less important, and luck becomes way more of a factor, especially seeing what else you can bag while you're behind.

This creates an extremely low threshold to get top driven times, if not faster, which kinda flips at the very least mushroom cup on top of its head with something that might have a bigger impact than BC ultra did compared to top rankings. It also seems like Flower Cup is quite affected, Star Cup, and thus, All Cup Tour as well. Special Cup is still too unexplored to be able to answer it well.

Then there's the issue of what is the speedrun really about? A few factors:

• Skill
• %Mechanics of the game
• RNG
• Flashiness Currently RNG is already an incredible high factor, but this would amplify it to unparalleled heights. ThatCowGuy already did the math that with 4 tracks, the chance of getting the golden mushroom RNG is 27%. This is not even accounting for no blue shells, no lightning, and other items you'd potentially want to bag such as triple mushrooms or a star. You'd also sacrifice skill, showing off the mechanics of the game, and even though it's a novelty right now, it'll eventually wear off

Now obviously it's not like the only driving left is shroom driving but it affects a considerable amount of tracks, even MuC could profit from it (not counting chomp strats).

It really alters how you approach GP as it affects pretty much every category, and thus I find it more sensible to consider a separate category at the moment.

https://www.speedrun.com/mkw/thread/mm2l5 i think ur the only one wowie

Care to elaborate / give us an example?

We're in the progress of adding category extensions, please be patient :)

You guys are aware of a run by bitter done in a thread from 3 weeks ago?

Hey D4C, all Mario Karts have their own rulesets, so there's not a general rule on proof. As I can see you've submitted a run for MKDD, I'll quickly run it down for you:

RTA (Real Time) is required for submissions IGT (In Game Time) is preferred to add to your submission, but not necessarily mandatory.

For now, only top 10 times require video. There's no need to add any proof beforehand, though obviously, we always encourage adding a picture or video if possible.

these are the high quality speedruns ive been waiting for on this forum

Right click the exe -> properties -> compatibility mode -> run the game in 640x480 resolution

if anyone has a better solution i'd love to hear it but that's what I've been doing

God damn guys yall did it again, great work

You're allowed to play on a wii, just submit using GCN as tag as that's the release of the game, and GC - Wii have virtually no differences

Updated the logo myself to make it more MKDD :)

This is actually legendary plot development, incredible work you two.

I do have a question, since I don't think you've mentioned it. How about the cutscene where the rails go up? does that also get subtracted from the IGT?