Forums  /  Toy Story series  /  Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue  /  IL Leaderboards/Categories
  cheeseandcerealcheeseandcereal

The following is my comment on the matter of the IL leaderbords:

As of right now the IL leaderboards are functional. Yes, it is true that most games tend to handle ILs differently, where they might only have a few category in ILs, which is simply like an "any%" or "100%" for an individual level which doesn't relate to the full game speedruns. (i.e. beat the level as fast as possible [in ts2 case, this would be getting one token], or collecting and completely beating a single level).

As of right now, the current IL boards have the 100% category that is the most "common" among IL boards, and is what you might consider a "traditional" IL category. This means that if you really want a "traditional" IL category, simply submit it as a 100% IL run.

Note: It currently does not have something such as an "any%" level (which in this case would mean 1 token), however if people really want something like this, it can be added no problem.

A common argument against the current IL boards is that they have too many categories. Well, fortunately, too many categories does not actually take away any functionality. If you don't like the extra categories, you can simply ignore them. Removing functionality by removing existing categories doesn't make a lot of sense, simply to match what is "common" among other games' boards.

Another common complaint is that since the IL categories are related to the routes for the main runs (which, by the way, isn't true for levels with re-visits since revisit splits aren't on the IL boards), that when the full game route changes, then the IL category route changes, thus potentially invalidating all the existing IL runs. This argument is indeed, true, however it is also somewhat frivelous. Since I have completely rerouted the game over 2 years ago, there has been only 1 change to the token route of ANY of the categories. On top of this, the change simply swapped which tokens we get in 1 particular level, (number of tokens per level has never changed), effectively just making the level faster without any fundamental route changes by needing to grab different tokens in different levels. This means that the number of tokens we were grabbing in each level 2 years ago, are the same that number that we are grabbing today. While the run itself has improved over time with new tricks, this has ONLY lowered the time of individual levels, never changing the fundamental routes themselves. IF there does come a day where a trick so durastic is found that it would change the token route of the levels, then yes, ILs will be changed and invalidated for the affected levels. Because of this, it does not make sense to delete entire IL categories based on the idea that some edge case COULD occur at some point in time which would invalidate runs. If you don't like the idea of your IL run being potentially invalidated by future routes, then don't run and submit ILs for categories like 30 or 40 token where the fundamental token route could theoretically change. If you don't like the category, you don't have to submit runs. You are more than welcome to only do ILs for a category like 100% or Max% which could fundamentally never change regardless of the full game route.

Something else to note is that a lot of people complain about the IL boards, but don't actually do any ILs themselves. If someone came with a bunch of recorded ILs that they couldn't submit because there wasn't an appropriate category, then we can discuss if the category makes sense and should be added, but there is no need to remove existing categories.

If you would like to discuss why a category should be added, feel free. If you would like to discuss why a category (and thus functionality) should be removed, then feel free, however keep in mind that (as mentioned above), arguments such as "it's not how it's normally done/it's not like other games" or "it looks cluttered" will likely be ignored without a better justification.

 
  MasterLeoBlueMasterLeoBlue

So basically what you are saying here is.

We know our IL Leaderboard is cluttered and has pointless categories on it

If you want some categories, we can add it so that our IL leaderboard becomes more crowded and ugly.

We don't have to change our leaderboard because the routes will never change ever.

Even though every game has gotten to a point where new things were found

It will never change.

So let me and Passive have our retarded categories, okay? Gosh you guys are so mean.

I don't care about the community's interest. I only care about mine and Passive's interest.

YOU ARE PATHETIC!

CapridogCapridog likes this. 
  XYXXYX

i wish all the future runners the best of luck in case im not around to help them.

PvtCbPvtCb likes this. 
  Kollin7Kollin7

Cheeseandcereal, what if I told you that I have had interest in doing IL runs for several months, but this joke of an IL leaderboard has completely killed any interest I have until it is fixed? What would you say to me?

 
  cheeseandcerealcheeseandcereal

Then, I'm very sorry that you let a leaderboard layout affect your passion for playing and enjoying a game. You can run a game and make up rules and do literally anything you desire in the game. Whether or not it needs to be recorded on a leaderboard is a different matter. Fortunately, recording speedrun times on a site is not actually a requirement for playing a game.

 
  Kollin7Kollin7

That's ridiculous. You're telling me that because of some ridiculous rules, that have never made sense, that were created by 2 people who have not been active members of the community in YEARS, are worth keeping around for the sake of those 2 people? Rather than changing them to encourage SEVERAL new runners? Just to be clear, I have talked to other people who have expressed interest in doing IL runs for this game, but once they saw the IL leaderboard they said, basically, "Oh, fuck that."

Also, I know you're not really around the speedrunning community as a whole very often, but it is not rare for a poor leaderboard, poor rules, or poor community in general from making someone not want to speedrun a game. I think it's absurd for someone to be so stubborn to keep something that pleases the few, and angers the many just because that person is in a position of power.

Cyberdemon531Cyberdemon531 likes this. 
  cheeseandcerealcheeseandcereal

My response to you would be the exact same response to anyone else with the same reaction. If you don't want to play a game because the way the leaderboards look is weird to you, then don't play the game. No one is forcing anyone to or not to play any game. If someone actually wants to play a game because they enjoy the game, then they will play it.

 
  Kollin7Kollin7

All I can say to that is wow.

I will let you know now that I may have to take this to the "Leaderboard moderation requests thread"

Didn't want to have to, but you are possibly the most stubborn person I've seen on this site.

Cyberdemon531Cyberdemon531 likes this. 
  Kollin7Kollin7

Single tokens and 100% (and I guess max%) are the only categories that make sense for ILs for this game, and everyone knows it.

 
  Cyberdemon531Cyberdemon531

Race Token, Mystery Token, Coin Token, Collect Token, Boss Token

Kollin7Kollin7 likes this. 
  cheeseandcerealcheeseandcereal

Sure, I don't have any opposition to this. If someone wants to run and submit single token ILs, go ahead. It's been added. No one has ever ran, or suggested Single Token for this IL board before (neither on this forum nor to me directly), but if a Single Token category on an IL board really gives you inspiration to play a game, then go nuts.

 
  DelnDeln

by Single Token he mean an IL category for EVERY single token in each levels.... you really dont know what youre doing do you?

 
  DelnDeln

if the glitch can be done on console(can it be done on console?) then N64 should NOT be banned(emu included).

 
  XYXXYX

its possible on both its just emu is a lot easier to get the glitch in a run.

 
  DelnDeln

if its possible on both then you dont need to ban it, just let it go.

 
  cheeseandcerealcheeseandcereal

He just wanted single token so the leaderboard can look like the SM64 leaderboard. Why? I have no clue, since literally no one has ever done an IL like that. SM64 was actually designed around the idea of going in and only getting 1 star at a time in each level whereas Toy Story 2 definitely is not, but I'm not necessarily opposed to it since it doesn't hurt anything to add it, so whatever. Also yes, the basement clip is possible on emu and console (although you do need the proper version of the game for it to work on console, but it's been tested and confirmed numerous times).

Also for anyone actually trying to argue that entire categories should be removed just to reduce "clutter", just go look at an IL board like Super Meat Boy. http://www.speedrun.com/smb/individual_levels

 
  PassiveBobOmbPassiveBobOmb

Kingmarsh13 I've verified the clip in Andy's House to be possible on console before, BrandonScottHill has also made claims that he's done it on one of his carts as well, it's a "version" exclusive from one of the first releases of the game.

 
  PassiveBobOmbPassiveBobOmb

Deln, When you click on the "Single Token" category in the IL Leaderboard it brings you to the 5 individual tokens for that stage, there you can submit runs, it's done that way to reduce the amount of categories shown on the face of the leaderboard.

Kollin7, to quote and answer something you said earlier "You're telling me that because of some ridiculous rules, that have never made sense, that were created by 2 people who have not been active members of the community in YEARS, are worth keeping around for the sake of those 2 people?" this leaderboard was originally designed when the community was quite lively, we had a skype group of about 15-20 people (some of course were come and go kind of people) that the idea was discussed in, the idea of having 100%, Max% and both any% categories (With rules stating the requirements we use for timing the "any% routed IL") was perfectly fine and accepted within the community, as I've stated multiple times before to others, you can run 100% or Max% il's and submit them, your time will be added to the board, want to run Single Tokens, go right ahead nobody is stopping you but there's no reason to remove something that was added when the games community was the most popular it ever has been.