Toree 3D Forum  /  Discussion about the validity of Windy Ocean skip
  Deke64Deke64

Hello! In this thread I'd like to discuss the validity of the Windy Ocean skip as seen in the current Any% Glitchless WR by DylCat.

So, first of all: I know I'm a very, VERY new runner to this game and might be overstepping my boundaries a bit with this topic, but I think it might be very worth discussing.
Furthermore: in no way do I intend to make this a personal attack against DylCat (or ANY runners for that matter), especially seeing as DylCat skill level in this game is fantastic anyway!

Even though I'm rather new at this game (at least at actually running any%), I'd consider myself pretty knowledgeable when it comes to developing speedrunning strats - and Unity development as well, which is rather relevant for Toree 3D.
After some extensive testing, on and off stream, and further research into the actual physics of the game, I came to the conclusion that the Windy Ocean skip should not be allowed in glitchless (or even glitched) runs of the game.

As for my reason behind this: from what I've tested, I'm sure I can safely assume that the skip is very much frame rate dependant. Even very slight dips in FPS of around ~1-3% will be enough to change the physics just enough that the jump will be possible (due to the nature of how Unity paces its frames, those dips will not be accurately shown on the Steam FPS overlay for example. Unity's frame pacing is also the reason why FPS seem to sometimes jump from 60 to 59 or 61 FPS).
The physics of the game (at least most of them from what I've researched - definitely the character controller itself) is not tied to Unity's fixed physics step and is, even though Delta Timing is considered, very much tied to the frame rate.

As such, Windy Ocean skip will be very much impossible on systems that are able to keep a steady frame pace in Unity games and its' inclusion, while perhaps possible on some systems, does make for a highly uneven playing field without a way to actively and purposefully lagging the game at specific points with external tools (which is already a point of contention in games like A Hat in Time where such a tool exists) - and should be disallowed. This is not about a super RNG-dependant trick, but about a strat that will just flat-out not work for many players.

And let me reiterate - this is absolutely not meant as a direct attack against anybody and I'm very open to be proven wrong on that matter. DylCats runs are incredible! I'm just concerned about providing a more or less even playing field for all runners.

NoahGameRunsNoahGameRuns, SpoopadoopsSpoopadoops and AndetAndet like this. 
  AndetAndet

Thank you for your insight on this! There's actually been some discussion on whether it should be allowed. It seemed hardware-dependent, but we weren't entirely sure. We also did look at the frame rate display to make sure the trick wasn't being done during FPS dips, but based on what you're saying even if it says 60 FPS there might be some dips. Interesting

I'll discuss it in the Discord with the other mods/runners.

Speaking of which, join the Discord if you want 🙂

NoahGameRunsNoahGameRuns, Deke64Deke64 and SpoopadoopsSpoopadoops like this. 
  SpoopadoopsSpoopadoops

If the skip is dependent on hardware then I say it should be banned, the only parameter determining rather or not someone can get a good time should be their skill, not how good their hardware is.

NoahGameRunsNoahGameRuns, AndetAndet and Deke64Deke64 like this. 
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