Forums  /  ToeJam & Earl: Back in the Groove!  /  Endless mode
  DanVincentDanVincent

Now we know what the end conditions are for Endless (1001 levels) I think we should update the Endless category to reflect this.

At the moment we are using the timer to record the highest level reached, but I think we can abolish that now and instead record complete runs and the time taken. (as per a usual speedrun category)

Think we need to relax the rule of playing continuously though. It's not a healthy thing to do, and I wouldn't want to encourage or incentivise people to try it. (They are of course free to do so of their own accord)

Are there other games that have set a precedent of how long games are recorded? Do they allow consecutive play sessions to be stitched together? curious how this can work in the fairest possible way.

 
  slabslab

Consecutive play sessions would be considered a "segmented run". The risk in allowing segmented runs is the possibility of save scumming, and I'm not sure what you could do to mitigate that.

It looks like other games that permit segmented runs do so as a separate category/subcategory (for example the FFXIV Main Scenario Quest category has "SS" and "MS").

Other games aren't shy about making long runs single-segment (for example, Nemesis under Final Fantasy X). There are also some marathon runs, like the 3D Mario 602, 982, and 1862 categories, which allow breaks but the timer has to be running during breaks.

Animal Crossing 100% has a curious case where they permit stopping recording "while you sleep" but the timer has to remain running.

 
  DanVincentDanVincent

OK cool! that's great info, thanks.

I did some research after my post and learned that most speedrun games expect them to be run "single-segment", and my concern about it promoting an unhealthy activity is unwarranted. I can definitely see the potential for save scumming by allowing people to stitch together play sessions, and not only that: it seems unfair to compare a run that has been done over many weeks by someone fully awake and putting forth their best efforts/attention, vs. a runner who plays the same game in a single playthrough and naturally tires as fatigue sets in.

I guess I was concerned that a mode like Endless will take too long to complete in a single playthrough without being unhealthy. I still think it's unhealthy to do it, but at least it's "the done thing" within the speedrun community, and we wouldn't be asking any more of people than other games already do.

 
  DanVincentDanVincent

Will action changes to the category tomorrow, unless any more discussion takes place.

Here is what I plan to do:

- Archive/ delete the existing runs. (We used seconds to represent levels. So if someone reached level 50, they would log it as a 50 second run. If they reached level 100, they would log it as a 1 minute 40 second run. Leaderboard was inverted to show the slowest "times" at the top. We don't need to keep this approach now it's clear there is an end condition to reach: Level 1001.)

- Set the category up as a traditional Speedrun category: fastest is best. Run must show levels 1 - 1001.

- Rules to match other categories: "Timer starts when character is selected (For solo runs) or when all players have joined & the elevator leaves Level 1 (Multiplayer) with everyone inside. Timer ends when final ship piece is collected. Game audio must be included and audible. Starting presents must be the stock default. Game capture needs to be unobstructed and continuous."

 
  DanVincentDanVincent

Updated the category as described.

It's empty for now but i've submitted a 23hr+ run for Seawalker to watch :'D

Hopefully that inspires others to have a go!!