The Stalin Subway: Red Veil Forum  /  Weird inconsistency I found in Cr1tikal's run
  VasaLavVasaLav

I was watching Cr1tikals run and I found something thats really odd, he beats the second level with 39 ammo in his clip, however, when he starts playing the 4th level, he has 48 ammo??
I know that the third level maxes your ammo out to 200 but I checked other any% runs, and the amount of ammo in the clip size stays the same.....

timestamps:
1:28 he leaves the 2nd level with 39 ammo
1:42 he starts the 4th with 48 ammo
Can someone explain this?

 
  Tezur0Tezur0

Hm, won't know since this thing doesn't work for me. However you are right that ammo in clip doesn't change in other runs. It might be varying or we might have Charlie splicing here 🙄

hellamagnushellamagnus, FaustasFaustas and 2 others like this. 
  VasaLavVasaLav

@TimopyTimopy could you check since neither I or Tezur0 can do the level 3 skip

 
  TimopyTimopy
(edited: )

I'll try it soon, I have a completely new pc and I haven't tried if the compatibility mode thing still works.

plankplank likes this. 
  TimopyTimopy

Nope, the bug doesn't work for me anymore. I'm not sure the sample size is big enough to tell if Charlie did a sneaky splice there or if it's just jankiness by the game

Tezur0Tezur0 likes this. 
  Tezur0Tezur0

I wouldn't be surprised if this game is just junky. We still don't know what specific circumstances make this glitch possible in first place, so who knows what else there's for us.

 
  Tyler_MOTUTyler_MOTU

I'm having problems getting the game to start, but if I can figure that out I'll try to look into it.

 
  Tyler_MOTUTyler_MOTU

I got the game to work but the level 3 skip unfortunately doesn't work on my computer. I think I still have my old laptop somewhere so I can try on that, but I don't even know if that computer works anymore.

 
  Tyler_MOTUTyler_MOTU
(edited: )

There are definitely some interesting things about his run. As VasaLav said, he ends level 2 with 39 ammo and starts level 4 with 48 ammo. In Timopy's 7:02, Turnipp’s 9:58, 10:28, and 11:08, and antidotsr’s 15:25, they all end level 2 with the same number of bullets in the gun they start level 4 with. If this were the only thing weird about Cr1tikals run, it might be that the game is just janky, however the same thing happens again. In Cr1tikals video at 6:39, he ends level 6 with 6 ammo in the gun and an extra 161 rounds to reload with. When he starts level 7 he has 19 ammo in the gun with an additional 142 ammo to spare. That's not normal, but it gets worse. Cr1tikal’s game doesn’t fade in from black in levels 4, 6, 7, and 8. This is really odd. I have watched every run submitted in both categories on speedrun.com and in every single run, the first time a level is loaded the screen fades in from black. The amount of time this takes to occur varies, but it is always several frames. In levels 4, 6, 7, and 8, Cr1tikal’s game immediately loads the levels without this fade in. Any time you load a level past the first time, there is no fade in. The only run I have seen in which the game doesn’t fade in on the first load of a level is Arzga’s 11:21 all levels run, however this run is different because it has the cutscenes enabled. His game only doesn’t have the fade in on the levels that have a cutscene before them. At no point in Cr1tikals video did I see any evidence of there being cutscenes enabled. The levels without a fade in aren’t even consistent between the two runs. The levels without the fade in in Arzga’s run are 1, 3, 4, and 7. Cr1tikal’s run fades in on levels 1 and 3, and there is no frame in the video in which a cutscene appears. You can skip the cutscenes, but level 1 starts with 2 cutscenes back-to-back, meaning that he would have to have skipped the cutscenes frame perfectly in order to skip them without them appearing in the video. Even if he did do so, it doesn’t make sense why the game would fade in for him. I am very interested in what you have to say about this as you all know more about the game than I do. I hope I am wrong as it would be a shame if he spliced, and hypocritical as well as he made a video about a guy that cheated a House of Caravan speedrun.

TimopyTimopy and plankplank like this. 
  TimopyTimopy
(edited: )

Curious, I'll do some research and verify once I have more time.. I'm pretty busy the next two weeks but I'll try to find time during or afterward to check what you claim. Doesn't sound very good though.

 
  VasaLavVasaLav

Things are really heating up in the world of Stalin Subway: Red Veil speedrunning, Cr1tikal has an email in his about page, if anyone here wants to, go ahead and email him ig
https://www.youtube.com/user/penguinz0/about

 
  TimopyTimopy

I fail to see what confronting him achieves before any action is taken. He wasn't even the one to submit the run to the leaderboards, as someone else did it on his behalf. Sadly it'll probably take me at least a week before I get a good opportunity to do some verification and investigation, I'd just like to personally have an indepth look at things before any decisions.

Tezur0Tezur0 likes this. 
  TimopyTimopy
(edited: )

Aight. I found some time. Looked over the other runs, things are as Tyler says. I also did a good several runs on two separate computers, making saves before and at the start of every level.
Ammo count in the clip doesn't change between any level, though you can buffer a reload during a loading screen, in that case, the animation will be displayed at the start of the next level and the ammo counts can be seen changing. Even then, the ammo count in the clip would be full, instead of 19.
If you go to the next level by completing the level you're currently in, the screen seems to always fade in from black, no matter how many times you load it. I tried entering each level many, many times from the previous one and the fade-in never failed to happen. The only time the fade-in didn't happen was when loading a save.

I removed Cr1tikal's run due to being suspicious. Based on current knowledge and evidence it seems like the run was spliced together using saves at the start of levels. Shit don't add up. I hope to be proven wrong.

plankplank and Tyler_MOTUTyler_MOTU like this. 
  TimopyTimopy

I also found out that the account the speedrun was credited to on this site was wrong as well lol.

 
  Tyler_MOTUTyler_MOTU

I found something else. At 6:37 in his run he ends level 6 with 31 health, but when he starts level 7 he only has 18. As far as I know your health carries through levels, with the exception of skipping level 3 giving you 100 health.

TimopyTimopy likes this. 
  EZScapeEZScape

Someone sent me this thread so I reached out to Charlie over this topic. This is what he sent me!

"I dont remember too much of the game, I used to speedrun a ton of shitty games back then like 5-10 a month just going through steam overwhelming negative user reviews and finding routes or learning routes and sometimes make a video on the more interesting ones. I do remember spending a good chunk of time on stalin subway because it kept crashing on me and there's a level skip that would sometimes just freeze my laptop but I don't think I ever got fed up enough to splice a run together. Haven't touched that game since posting the run since it was such a headache to do but yeah if the ammo/health count cant be duplicated I cant really explain it either. The people on there have definitely tested it all more than me and im only going off memory from over 4 years ago. All my speedruns except House of Caravan were mainly just to joke around in a shitty game with fun glitches so I never submit them"

ThanksdudeThanksdude, VasaLavVasaLav and 4 others like this. 
  TimopyTimopy
(edited: )

Cheers. I tried emailing him but got no response. I thought it might be something like that since he is a very busy dude. My email might have been a bit weird too, dunno.

The thing with his run being on the leaderboard was a fun thing to have, since it was submitted by someone else, I didn't think that much about it.

 
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