Forums  /  The Evil Within 2  /  A Message Towards The Moderators
  Bull_the_GreatBull_the_Great

could you be more specific . for me who reads this for he first time I have no clue what you are saying ... I can only assume it has something to do with the deleted thread ... i admit , I hate deleted threads , threads should only be locked , never deleted . doesn't really put out good vibes and a feel of democracy and transparency ...

TheBritishRunnerTheBritishRunner likes this. 
  TheBritishRunnerTheBritishRunner

Yeah thats my bad man wasnt thinking clearly of the whole situation. However from my point of view Uhtrance isnt treating the community with respect that they deserve. Anyway after reading whats left of the forum that hasnt been deleted to be honest didnt know about the deleted post but clearly something is wrong with one of moderators and im here to give some advice to try and help clear up the situation abit. The posts i am referencing from are: - Definition of Glitchless
- Opinions on categories and rulesets

So if someone has a problem or needs information or even requests a rule change with a good reason and you disregard it as inferior then you arent a moderator nothing more than a child with a new toy and not allowing the rest of the class to play with it or to request changes to it.

Also as a moderator you are required to verify the runs that are submitted as it states that a run that had broken the rules was verified by uhtrance verification means watching the full run which i believe either you didn't care or couldn't be bothered to watch the whole run especially something like glitchless incase they used a single glitch skip or any glitches of any kind.

My message isnt to be hateful im clearing explain my point of view but i will say this moderators are meant to be professionals. Start Acting Like One.

13irth13irth likes this. 
  Bull_the_GreatBull_the_Great

yeah . i dont feel comfortable with stamina manipulation being glitchless but i didn't feel like there was too much interest on debating it . i know it isn't maybe technically a glitch but still glitchless runs should look more clean , without any mechanic abuses ...

and there really were some approved runs which had skips ? that kinda sucks . i know it is time consuming but then , maybe other people could help too .

TheBritishRunnerTheBritishRunner likes this. 
  TheBritishRunnerTheBritishRunner

Well ive tried thats ll i can do mate and im not going to hold a huge campaign about it ive got better things to do like taking the gold in glitchless

Bull_the_GreatBull_the_Great likes this. 
  Bull_the_GreatBull_the_Great

opa ! i would like to see a new name in top 3 . although i would curse you for making me 4th then .

but trust me , it's a very hard job . getting around 2 hours seems almost impossible. and i can't quite figure it out why yet .because i am doing runs with almost no big mistakes . would need to see side by side maybe. every second here and there counts . but the difference between me and 1st time is around 7 minutes. something is wrong there !

 
  13irth13irth

Just so everyone knows, all my posts I spoke for myself. I didn't do anything because of anyone else.

Secondly, I deleted my own posts because I didn't want to have anything to do with this game other than my run.

Thirdly could you fix your "PS4" run to say PC if you ran it on PC ty
https://i.imgur.com/gOo8Jmv.png

 
  LivLiv

Easiest way to solve this whole situation is just to remove "Glitchless" entirely, and work that category around specific glitches people deem to change the run up too much. Like sequence breaks or skips.

Most games try to stray away from 'Glitchless' now because well... Cuphead is a perfect example. It almost never works. "Glitchless" is entirely opinion, and that's why most games now are going towards 'Major Glitches', 'Minor Glitches', 'No Major Skips', 'No Wrong Warp' and so forth.

I don't run this game but in my own opinion, stamina manipulation shouldn't be banned in any category simply because:

1. Too minor of a thing to divide categories on.
2. You gain this speed manipulation simply by using the mechanic of aiming itself. So whenever you're dropping and reapplying aim too much, you're basically gaining extra speed. Even if that isn't your intention.

"Glitchless" is kinda arbitrary. It's more about people trying to explain why they think X thing is a glitch, over just separating the difficult Skips in the run that competition will divide over. No one wants to run a category where 20 people are arguing something super minor is a glitch, and 20 people are arguing it isn't. Like a lot of games not all abusable mechanics need to be cut from "Glitchless". Just cut the sizable sequence breaks and skips from the run, and let everything else be fair game. If you're bad at mashing, or bad at executing a small trick then practice said trick and get better instead of cutting every abusable thing off that doesn't really affect the run much.

TDLR: Get rid of Glitchless, change it to 'No Major Skips'. That way there's less people back and forthing over what a "Glitch" is, and more people actually just playing the game. People that actually want to run the game will, the people who would've dropped the game in a few months anyway will complain and leave.

13irth13irth likes this. 
  TheBritishRunnerTheBritishRunner

And what if people that run that category dont want to use glitches to get a quicker time in my opinion glitchless is far more skillful even though some glitches can be hard to pull off glitchless should always be a option to those who want as far as i know console versions dont have any benficial glitches in the game.

 
  MattmattMattmatt

You can skip chapter 3 on console, you just cant do most if not all the launches in the game.

 
  LivLiv

Quote

And what if people that run that category dont want to use glitches to get a quicker time in my opinion glitchless is far more skillful even though some glitches can be hard to pull off glitchless should always be a option to those who want as far as i know console versions dont have any benficial glitches in the game.

"Glitchless" doesn't really exist though for most games, because what people class as a glitch can vary massively. Some people class overdamaging bosses and skipping phases, once again going back to the Cuphead example, as a glitch. Same with manipulating the A.I of an enemy in a game. In my eyes though, that's just using your knowledge of how the game works to your own advantage.

The best method of doing it, in my opinion, is:

1. Glitched is a broken up version/approach of the game. If there's 13 chapters in a game, and you "skip" 3 of them, then you're playing an unintended approach of the game. Whether it's by out of bounds or by bypassing a trigger through some other means.

2. "Glitchless" is a linear approach of the game, you do every set piece in the game. As in, you don't "skip" a section of the intended sequence of events.

A category with stamina manipulation banned wouldn't really work competition wise because, like I said, if someone aims multiple times in a row without even wanting to manipulate their speed then they've already gained an advantage unwillingly over another player who maybe just never did any unnecessary extra aims during a run. Trying to police that, verification wise, would be next to impossible because the act of doing the exploit is just a side-effect of a normal game mechanic. This is me coming from a game where we literally had the same exact situation and changed from Glitchless because this same exact thing happened.

As for console / PC glitches differing, they're separate categories, though?

13irth13irth likes this. 
  TheBritishRunnerTheBritishRunner

You can still skip areas in glitchless unless it involves a glitch like a enemy i call the watcher in this game in chapter 12 i believe where she can use telekinesis and phase through walls and requires alot of stealth to get through without dying so you skip this by not going into that area instead simply go and get the computer chip you need to get through thats a glitchless skip. Also how is your post supposed to convince us that glitchless shouldn't be a category yes there are going to be people saying this is a glitch and that is a glitch but you can spot a glitch in the game pretty easily.

 
  MattmattMattmatt

The point they are trying to make is its hard to define a "glitch" when its all just what other people think a glitch is, its never going to be the same opinion of what is and isnt a glitch by people, its always going to be different, maybe a better name for the category would be Any% No OoB/Zipping, that way the only 2 things that cant be used during the run is launching across the map and going out of bounds. So it would basically be glitchless without people saying "oh i think thats a glitch" or "oh thats a glitch in my opinion".

13irth13irth likes this. 
  LivLiv

If you're saying you can skip sections in glitchless, you're probably misunderstanding what is meant by skip.

When we say "skip" we mean using an exploit to get around doing a section of the game unintentionally, like through Out of Bounds or as you said, phasing through walls.

Getting through an area fast, doing it optimally, or skipping over an optional area isn't a "skip". It's strictly a term that means using a large glitch like the aforementioned to avoid doing that section.

As Matt said, a better name / stipulation for it would be "Any% no OoB/Zipping", with every very minor exploit that doesn't affect the games actual event sequencing being allowed.

13irth13irth likes this. 
  LivLiv

No OoB/Zips would also include this stamina manipulation exploit.

But yes, it would be "Glitchless", basically.

13irth13irth likes this. 
  Bull_the_GreatBull_the_Great

when you tap an aim key for a moment every like 1.5 seconds apart to fool the game for your stamina to deplete a lot slower . look at our glitchless runs . you will see it . once you get the gun of course